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Foxhunting with dogs. Should it be made illegal?

 
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 12:52 pm
Uh, I don't see you volunteering for the bear removal service.
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dora17
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 12:53 pm
Intrepid wrote:
cjhsa wrote:
My post about Peter Singer and his personal sickness was simply to remind people of who you roost with when you choose the anti-hunting side of things.

It also speaks volumes when you say you would never kill an animal except to defend yourself, then go happily to the market and buy a package of ground beef.


I was wondering when the supermarket reference would come up. Humane <?> slaughter of animals for food cannot be compared to "sport" hunting where the animal may only be wounded etc., or being hunted to ground by dogs in a run for their life.

If you enjoy some kind of primeval thrill by shooting little birds, that is your perogative as it is not currently against the law. There are those of us who think it is barbaric and that is the way it is.


The supermarket/hunting comparison.... I'm with intrepid, I can't understand the desirre to go hunt and kill, it seems barbaric to me too.

But although I dislike hunting, I am far more upset and disgusted with the conditions that animals raised for food live and die in. At least the hunted animal has been able to live a natural life until the hunter comes along. The animal raised for food has, in many cases, lived its entire life in awful conditions, frequently (in the cases of hogs, battery chickens, veal calves, geese raised for pate, and often dairy cows) unable to even turn around or lay down. I wish people didn't want to hunt, but it pales in comparison to the cruelty of the factory farm industry. I won't even try to go into the conditions in slaughterhouses, but suffice it to say that it is usually far from humane.

And now I will be out of town for several days and won't be able to keep up with the topic...
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 12:57 pm
Once any reasonable taxpayer or oversight committee sees how much it costs to relocate bears, along with the fact they can make a considerable sum from allowing the bears to be hunted through licensing fees and taxes on hunting purchases, relocation becomes a non-option. Besides, it just takes a problem bear and makes it someone else's problem. It NEVER works.

I love it when a real bunny hugger gets out there to "mingle" with the bears and oh they're so big and cute and fuzzy and HOLY **** THAT THING WANTS TO EAT ME!

Priceless.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:01 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Uh, I don't see you volunteering for the bear removal service.


That is the extent of your reply?

In case you are not aware of the facts to your own information, the bear ban in New Jersey was 35 years ago (1970). Bears come under the jurisdiction of the New Jersey Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife - not me.

To use your own words.....should not be attempting to debate me Shocked
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cjhsa
 
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Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:03 pm
Yes and now they have a problem.

http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/moran/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1118813690126730.xml&coll=1
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Letty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:20 pm
People, this has gotten out of hand. All Mctag was trying to say was that legislation is NOT the answer. Rolling Eyes
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cjhsa
 
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Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:26 pm
I like to drag the antis out to play. Sorry McTag.
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McTag
 
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Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 01:54 pm
Well it's been an interesting set of responses.

I would add this: I said earlier that (in this country at least, but I think probably elsewhere also) that it is very largely a town versus country argument.

Country dwellers for centuries have seen the fox as an adversary. It is a vigorous, resourceful and intelligent scavenger and killer. If you keep hens, or ducks, or have young animals around, the fox is lethal. A fox in a hen run will slaughter the lot. It is loathed and feared by people who have suffered by its predations.

I am reminded of the relationship of central european peasants with the wolf. It is a legendary menace.

It is no surprise then, to find numbers quite happy to indulge in hunting it as a pastime. No remorse there.

People who have seen it in picture books, a fluffy bright-eyed and appealing-looking animal, more commonly think differently about the subject.

The fox, btw, although looking like a dog, is not zoologically related to the dog.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:19 pm
Bear hunting is licensed in NJ. Its a lottery license program. The dummest thing is that bear baiting is allowed. ALL bear baiting does is make the bears crave donuts and then they become human food junkies. All this selection pressure, soon foxes and bears will be walking upright.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:21 pm
I think baiting is allowed because many of the hunts are in fairly populace areas where only bow and/or shotgun can be used. It's as much a scent mask for the hunter as it is bait for the bear.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:42 pm
Source
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:44 pm
Yep, directly from the HSUS.

Your credibilty is out the window.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:46 pm
HSUS == Washington D.C. based ANTI - HUNTING Political Action Group - not the Humane Society whose name they have stolen.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:50 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Yep, directly from the HSUS.

Your credibilty is out the window.


Explain yourself!
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:51 pm
cjhsa wrote:
HSUS == Washington D.C. based ANTI - HUNTING Political Action Group - not the Humane Society whose name they have stolen.


Wouldn't you think they would be sued if they stole their name? Shocked

Regardless, are you saying that the article is a lie? What exactly are you saying?
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:51 pm
I just did. You suck up to those creeps, you lose.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:52 pm
The article is a bunch of anti-hunting propaganda.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:52 pm
So, I suppose everybody but me knows what you are talking about.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 02:58 pm
The "humane society" as most think of it consists of a loose knit group of animal shelters. Even if they wanted to it would be horribly expensive to bring lawsuit against a huge PAC over the name. HSUS and the Fund for Animals recently united to become the largest anti-hunting PAC (group of retards) in the U.S.

Their positions:

"The Fund For Animals is unalterably opposed to the recreational killing of wildlife" (i.e. hunting)

"The Humane Society of the United States is strongly opposed to the hunting of any living creature...".
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:36 pm
'tards in action. Hunt the damn things already!:



Mess-making geese spared from slaughter, only to be chased by kayak-riding dogs


By DAVID CRARY
AP National Writer

June 15, 2005, 5:58 AM EDT

GREENWICH, Conn. -- Officials in this affluent suburb were fed up with Canada geese soiling local parks, to the point that mass execution was contemplated. After intense public debate, the plan was dropped in favor of non-lethal alternatives _ including deployment of a border collie in a life jacket, yapping from aboard a kayak.

The geese are unnerved, but most people familiar with the new plan are pleased. Animal-protection groups hope Greenwich's example might be followed by communities in many states beset with similar nuisances.

"It's not brain surgery _ it's doable," said Rodi Rosensweig, a Humane Society of the United States spokeswoman. "Towns can make these changes if they want to."

Protected by the federal government, which must grant permits for any slaughter, Canada geese have multiplied dramatically in Atlantic Coast and Midwestern states. There are now an estimated 2.6 million resident Canada geese in the United States who don't migrate; they prefer wide-open, mowed grass to natural terrain, so their prolific droppings often litter parks and golf courses.

Federal officials say overpopulation is worst in the Atlantic flyway stretching from Virginia to New England. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service would like to reduce resident geese in the region from 1 million to 620,000 _ possibly by allowing states to expand control methods without federal permits.

"Two geese in the park are cute _ 1,000 geese are not so cute," said Nicholas Throckmorton, a Wildlife Service spokesman.

Communities seeking to oust the geese have tried noisemakers, scarecrows, fake coyotes and alligators _ often with little lasting effect. Thousands of geese have been rounded up and killed in recent years, after exasperated local authorities obtained Wildlife Service permits. Protests have sometimes followed.

Greenwich officials were seeking permission to kill up to 200 geese during the midsummer molting season when the birds can't fly away from pursuers. But even though many park-goers are weary of the geese, the planned execution generated vocal opposition _ and town officials announced June 1 that they would pursue a non-lethal plan devised by a Virginia-based group called GeesePeace.

Within days, GeesePeace president David Feld was on hand at Greenwich's idyllic Binney Park, observing as two border collies _ one by land, one by kayak _ chased a dozen geese away. Feld explained that the collies, though trained as herders who would not attack, are nonetheless viewed by the geese as menacing predators.

"We're making this into a place where Canada geese do not want to be anymore," said Feld.

The GeesePeace plan, tried by a dozen or so towns in other states, includes harassment by dogs and an educational campaign to persuade people not to feed the geese. A third component, which won't start in Greenwich until next spring's nesting season, calls for volunteers to find nests and cover each egg with corn oil, a technique which prevents hatching.

Feld said the strategy was developed after debate over killing geese divided his neighbors at Lake Barcroft in Virginia's Fairfax County.

"We were at war with each other," he said. "I told the community, 'Look, we went to the moon. We can figure out how to do solve this problem."'

Several conservation and animal-protection groups helped encourage Greenwich to drop plans for a goose slaughter, including the Humane Society of the United States. The society is offering free video packages to local officials nationwide, promoting non-lethal methods of coping with unwanted geese.

John Hadidian, director of the society's Urban Wildlife Program, said most state wildlife and conservation departments provide little help with such efforts. He also said many communities _ unlike Greenwich _ keep quiet about plans for goose slaughters so that opponents have no chance to protest. "That's not democracy in action," he said.

Greenwich officials haven't ruled out the possibility of geese slaughters in the future, depending on whether the GeesePeace strategy succeeds. Its supporters hope nearby towns in southwestern Connecticut and New York's Westchester County will join the initiative, perhaps persuading the geese to revive their lost tradition of summer migration to the Canadian Arctic.

Though the new plan has broad support, some activists are critical. The Connecticut-based Friends of Animals says Greenwich should avoid using dogs or oiling eggs, and instead focus on landscape changes that would make park lawns less inviting to geese.

Said Friends president Priscilla Feral: "Why create animosity toward a bird that has far less to do with polluting the environment than humans do?"


http://www.nynewsday.com/news/loc al/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct--geesereprieve0615jun15%2C0%2C616358%2Cprint.story?coll=ny-region-apconnecticut
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