"I support the troops..." ???

Well put Au, but I fear your words are falling on at least one pair of deaf ears.

Stop protesting, shut up and pay your taxes?

Oy. As I said elsewhere, I support all the troops. American, Iraqi, Brits, Aussies. Keep your head low and get out when you can.

Stop Protesting???!?!?!?!?

Protests are the best way to support the troops. They are being put in danger for a war that most of the world consider illegal and unjust.

Yes the nation needs young people who are willing to serve in this countries military, and yes they should obey the president. I am not angry with the soldiers who are serving (although I certainly would refuse to serve in this war - but that is why I never enlisted). I respect their commitment and their service.

My protests are against the administration that is putting them in harms way for a questionable policy. These protests will keep more soldiers from killing and dying. That seems the best kind of support that I can give.

Trying to stifle protests this way undermines the best of America that these young men and women are bound to protect.

Yes, of course we want to kill, and the more innocent people killed, the better! (Well, that's what you seem to want to believe of those who disagree with you, so I figured "give 'em what 'e wants".)

Tresspassser

I don't question my good wishes for the troops who will have to fight this war. I want every warrior to return whole -- and in good repair psychologically.

If you are the kind of person who thinks I am less a patriot if I extend those good wishes and hopes to the Iraqi troops also, I guess I will simply have to be less a patriot in your eyes, because my feelings of empathy and sympathy for the people who will have to fight this war are not confined only to "my own kind."

This war -- and the way we are going about what we are doing -- is one of the most disgusting chapters in our nation's history. This impetuous, childish, dull-witted, adventuresome dolt who is now using the might of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines of our country to play "my dick is bigger than yours" with Saddam Hussein -- is an embarrassment to our country -- and to humanity in general in our supposed advanced state of evolution.

But what is becoming even more embarrassing is the number of Americans who buy into all this bullschidt - and who puff their chests out in pride in backing a man and a policy that is barbaric, ill-conceived and hypocritical, at its core.

YES, I will support the troops.

As for your clever "Do you want OUR troops to win?" …

…well, I guess I am hoping for a fast, decisive war with minimum casualties, so I guess that is really what I am hoping for.

In my mind, being as I am a human as well as an American, when I think of OUR TROOPS, I think of all the men and women engaging in this preposterous and unnecessary bit of nonsense.

And the only way OUR TROOPS can win using those criteria is for the misadventure never to occur.

Yeah, I'm hoping for that, too.

I hope that answers your questions, Tresspasser.

There is no such thing as a clean war. War is about killing and destroying. There will be missers, and there will be innocents killed!

I don't recall anyone saying that no innocent people would be killed. I recall you pretending that some people WANT that.

Some things seem to me beyond the pale. I won't dignify a yes or no answer about whether I want our soldiers to "win". I think that question is intellectually dishonest, and a cheap try at baiting. For Crissakes, I am a friggin' soldier myself.

It seems also preposterous to me for the same individual who posed that question to take on high indignance at the mere suggestion of warmongering. On the one hand, you want to ask Americans if we wish our soldiers success; on the other - nobody better dare suggest anything shaky about your motives? C'mon, I mean seriously - what kind of question is that?

snood - It appears to be a question that has sparked some interesting discussion. That's what kind of question I think it is.

And perhaps you don't differentiate between the notion of warmongering--which to me implies having an irrational desire to start a war--and being willing to use military force to achieve something you believe is necessary. I suspect you recognize that calling someone a "warmonger" is an insult, so unless you have somehow come to the conclusion that I like to be insulted, it should not surprise or shock you that I would take exception to the application of that term to those who hold my point of view on this issue.

Lets see, this Saddam thing has been escalated by men in their 50's- why not have them strap on helmuts and gasmasks and leave the 20 year-olds safe to grow up and experience their lives- While I'm no pacifist, I do see the imbalance of this undertaking. too much blind faith in the name of patriotism.

Gala, I really like the idea. I would pay half my moneys to see those middle aged white men march one day. And frolic, I share your concerns. The 'noise' of protests against this war around the world seems to be much louder than in any major international conflict in recent history, from official institutions (UN to begin with!, albeit discreetly so) to large grassroot organizations and movements. It is especially sad to see the US and allied countires' diplomats abandoning their 'mother ship' because they cannot harmonize their conscience with their mother ships's stubborn determination to wage war (did you notice how many times its justification has shifted? is that alone not morally suspicious?), yet the mothership does not seem to notice or care for all these men jumping over board. I am very curious to see the world, the international relations a few months from now. It will make an interesting 'spectacle'.

I'm with dlowan in being curious about specifics. Will I call a returning soldier a babykiller? Absolutely not. I will be respectful and genuinely happy for his or her safe return. Will I stop protesting? Absolutely not. I will do whatever I can to get that soldier returned safely, and soon. Do I think my protest will make that happen? One can always hope, and I dislike the alternative... doing nothing.

Then by the same token should you find no suprise in the fact that people of good conscience are offended by your blatantly questioning whether or not they wish American soldiers' success.

I want to use the opportunity and to wish to all the American soldiers[/b] to return home alive, safe and sound, and to bring with them captured Hussein family for trial. God bless America and her glorious Army!

snood - "Blatantly questioning?" Ooh, I like that. It implies so much without actually saying anything.

I have accused no one of anything. I asked people whether they want the US to win. I did not write that I think some people want the US to lose. (That latter would be what you are dancing around accusing me of doing.)

If you don't like my question, feel free to abstain from the discussion. Others seem happy to explore the issues the question has raised. You alone seem to be moved to misrepresent both my actions and motives.

Remember Vietnam
Although I do not share some of the more fervent anti-war sentiments shared here, I do believe that war with Iraq may not be the most clear-cut senario that we'd like it to be. In other words, I'm not too gungho about the trip, but the tickets have been booked and this is one flight where it's death getting a refund.
I am on a team in one of our Special Forces groups. One whole battalion of ours is mopping up Afghanistan, and although we aren't going to be the first ones on the ground (much to the disappointment of many here), our sister group not a mile down the road will be. Do I want us to win, unequivocally, definitively hell yes. It is practically certain that we'll win. But what saddens me is that so many are so afraid of the thought of warfare that though they say they support us they oppose the whole premise of the war, and if you think about it that means they oppose what we are doing, clear and simple. George W. may not be Demosthenes, but one thing that impressed me was when he said that if we wait to attack only once we've been struck that is not self-defense. Tony Blair's address to the British House of Commons was one of the most sincere and passionate political speeches I have heard for a while.
I think Ecleciastes states it best when Solomon states that "there is a time for everything". In a few years the time may be to debate and oppose the war while writing the history books, but please try to remember that there are soldiers, sergeants and officers on the ground, and in opposing the war (especially with the vehemence I have seen around here), you essentially oppose every brave action, family sacrifice, hardship duty, and battleground honor that we strive for. Support this war, if for no other reason than once the guns begin firing all you accomplish is open up another front here at home, a theater of warfare that is in fact far harder to accept and overcome than Iraqi armies. Please remember Vietnam.

The Reluctant

'Bout time you put in an appearance, Lusatian. I agree, by the way.

Lusatian, thanks for posting, and good luck to you and your comrades.

I oppose the war. I was also literally brought to tears when I saw a picture of a mother, in uniform, saying goodbye to her children on the front page of the NYT, on her way to Iraq. I don't see these as being incompatible, though.

Lusatian, you said the words that were to be said. Thanks and good luck.