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WHAT SHALL WE DO WITH A DRUNKEN SAILOR?

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 04:37 pm
i believe the last german "pirate" under sail was count von luckner - also known as the "kaiser's pirate" .
as a boy i read his adventure book more than once - probably made me decide to seek my "fortunes" on foreign shores Shocked Laughing
hbg

from wiki :

Quote:
Graf (Count) Felix von Luckner (born Dresden, Germany, 9 June 1881, died Malmö, Sweden, 13 April 1966) was a German nobleman, navy officer, author and noted sailor who earned the epithet Der Seeteufel (the Sea-Devil) -- and his crew that of Die Piraten des Kaisers (the Emperor's Pirates) -- for his exploits in command of the sailing commerce raider SMS Seeadler (Sea Eagle) in 1916-1917.

It was his habit of successfully waging war without any casualties that made him a hero and a legend on both sides. There was only one accidental death during his voyage.

He was the great-grandson of Nicolaus von Luckner, Marshal of France and commander-in-chief of the French Army of the Rhine, who had been elevated to count in the 18th century by the King of Denmark


during WW I :
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Luckner.png/180px-Luckner.png

as a private citizen :
http://www.taucher.net/redaktion/70/seeadler/luckneralt2_resize.jpg

the german nazi government tried to use him for propaganda purposes and when he refused to co-operate , his book disappeared suddenly from all bookstores .
i managed to pick up an old copy of his book in a used bookstore in germany some years ago .
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 05:14 pm
The Count wasn't a pirate.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 05:28 pm
going back to the beginning

hi aidan hope you are still around

come over to Fowey (pronounced Foy!)

http://www.dumaurier.org/
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 08:16 pm
asherman wrote :

Quote:
The Count wasn't a pirate.


both his friends and his foes certainly did call him "der pirat des kaisers" .
his sailship sailed under norwegian flag and was stopped by a british cruiser and boarded passing around the northern end of the british isles .
the deck crew was dressed as norwegian sailors and passed inspection while the rest of the crew stayed in the cargo-hold dressed in german navy uniforms and armed .
they flew the black "pirate flag" and the german flag when stopping a ship on the high seas - mainly other sailshhips but also some steamships .
the sailship "seeteufel" was classified as a "Kaperschiff "(corsair or privateer ) .

he certainly led an interesting life no matter what we might call him today .
he ran away from school when he was 13(!) , hired on a russsian sailship and spent the next several years sailing the oceans .
by age 20 he decided to go back to school , got his mate's papers , sailed on a merchant ship for a short while and finally joined the german navy as an officer cadet at a fairly late age .
after WW I he obtained an old sailship and took it on a goodwill mission to the united states where he was given a warm welcome .
hbg

his story :
GRAF LUCKNER'S LIFE

the commerce raider "seeadler" , the ship that luckner sailed from germany into the south-pacific in 1916-17

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/SMSSeeadlerFront.PNG
0 Replies
 
Paaskynen
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 11:23 pm
I think what Mr Asherman means is that Graf Luckner and his crew were not pirates or privateers in the traditional sense, since they were all regular sailors of the Imperial German Navy. Pirates do not work for anyone but themselves and privateers are nominally in the service of a country, but they are not part of the navy and usually not paid for their service (instead they are expected to live of their spoils and share part of them with the authorities). The proper term for Luckner and his men is commerce raiders and the Germans employed several of those in both World Wars.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 May, 2007 11:39 pm
Armed merchantmen and commerce raiders were used e.g. by the UK and Japan as well.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 08:38 am
Often the line between pirates and privateers was blurred--earlier in the thread, i noted that the Governor of New Providence (now Nassau in the Bahamas) issued letters of marque, which were soon after revoked. It's a little difficult to start out on a cruise as a privateer, attracting the kind of crew who haven't better employment prospects, but who are willing to take the inherent risks in privateering, and then tell them in the middle of the cruise: "Well, the war is over, we have to stop attacking Spanish ships."

Note that in several cases which i have described in the earlier part of the thread, ship's masters who were commissioned as privateers were either the victims of mutinies in which their crews made them turn pirate (Captain Kidd is a good example of this), or were supplanted by an officer who turned pirate ("Calico Jack" Rackham was a quartermaster to took over his privateer captain's ship when the crew rebelled because they thought the master too timorous).

I agree that Luckner was, technically, at least, a commerce raider. I suspect, however, that the "classic" pirates would recognize his methods as pure piracy. Using false colors and misrepresenting one's crew and papers and cargo were tried and true methods by which pirates hoped to deceive victims, or escape naval cruisers.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 08:42 am
Although this does not refer to a pirate, i was always fascinated by Lothar von Arnauld de la Periere, a German descendant of French Huegenot refugees. During the Great War, he racked up a record as a submarine commander which has never been matched. He took or sank nearly 200 prizes (i don't recall the specific number). What is amazing is that he did so with his deck gun, usually, he hardly ever resorted to torpedoes. (People were still taking prizes, and sending them into be condemned for the prize money, although it was a failing business in that era--but using the deck gun meant that most of his victims surrendered, rather than being sunk.)

I believe he accounted for almost, or more than, an half-a-million tons of shipping.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 09:28 am
set : trying to satisfy your curiosity about ARNAUD-DE-LA-PERRIERE , i checked the german google version .
there are a fair number of entries , the first one in french - which you can probably read yourself ; the other entry is in german for which help may be available locally .
i agree that luckner was not a "pirate" in its true sense ; it's just what he was called by many who knew him .
what really fascinated me always , was that he manged to slip through the british blockade despite being boarded by a british navy boarding party .
even though he was not born to a seafaring family , he became a true "seadog" . having sailed on many sailships , he said in his book that it always saddened him to sink another sailship - he foresaw the end of the sailships .
btw the german navy command did not think very highly of his exploits and only gave him a rather old piece of artillery ; i believe it was an old 7.5 cm - anything bigger would probably have done more damage to his ship than the enemy ship .
hbg

Arnauld-de-la-Perriere :
----------------------------
FRENCH VERSION

GERMAN VERSION
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 09:53 am
A pirate is unaffiliated with any national military force, and preys upon shipping indiscriminately for profit. A privateer is a private vessel fitted out for war sailing under Letters of Marque land with a crew whose compensation is a share of captured booty. Capt. Luckner and his crew fit neither of these definitions, nor was the Seeadler the first such commerce raider, ie. The Alabama.

The Seeadler was a German naval vessel fitted out to prey on enemy merchant shipping. Capt. Luckner and his crew were members of the German Navy, and confined themselves to following their orders which were to sink Allied shipping and tiie up as many enemy naval forces as possible. The ship flew the German flag and her disciplined crew wore their uniforms at battle stations. The Captain and crew didn't loot their victims, but were paid by the Navy. The Seeadler probably was the last fighting naval vessel under sail, and that put her and her crew in constant danger of allied steam driven warships.

Naval vessels flying false flags isn't unusual. During wargames that I've participated in our ship flew a British flag, and the Captain did everything he could to disguise our ship's identity (topside was rigged to return a false radar returns, gun mounts disguised, etc.); it didn't help we were "sunk" on the third day of the exercise anyway. Naval officers are among the most conservative of warriors, still hoping to duplicate Lord Nelson, or Adm. Burke.

Flying the Jolly Roger was no more than a show of unit pride reflecting the moral of a crew that spend most of their time isolated at sea. Because some USMC aircraft have the same sign painted on their fighters doesn't make them pirates either.

The Seeadler's cruise was extremely successful. Allied naval forces were distracted in a large scale hunt trying to track down and destroy the German commerce raider. Capt. Luckner outfoxed them all. The Seeadler sank an extraordinary number of merchant vessels, most of whom were merchant sailing ships. Even merchant steam ships were captured and sunk, which is quite an accomplishment for a lone sailing ship whose infamy was generally known.

One of the remarkable things about Capt. Luckner and the Seeadler is the very small number of casualties resulting from their operations. Captured crews were transported to the Seeadler as POWs, and their Captains treated with the greatest respect. There were times when the number of allied prisoners far exceeded their captors. Capt. Luckner put his prisoners on their honor not to cause trouble, and the prisoners did not disappoint him. Though provisions were often low, everyone shared what there was until another allied ship was captured and sunk. Eventually, the prisioners were released ashore and the Seeadler vanished again on the wide ocean. Count v. Luckner was almost as much an anachronism as his command. Its a shame that the exploits of Capt. Luckner and the Seeadler are so little known today.

For what its worth, I read an English translation of Luckner's book back in 1954-55. At the time I was reading a lot of stuff on piracy, naval history and architecture, and biographies of naval heroes. Between 1954-57 I must of read 40-50 books on the subject, about the same number as I read in Science Fiction and twice as many as Classic Literature. Part of the reason that I went into the Navy was my continuing interest in naval history. I think I read Sabbotini's Capt. Blood in those years, but didn't get around to Steinbecks Cup of Gold until 1962. My interests shifted and I seldom read either naval histories, nor Science Fiction any more. I can't imagine my life if I weren't able to read, read, read. Oh well ....
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 11:45 am
Setanta wrote:
Although this does not refer to a pirate, i was always fascinated by Lothar von Arnauld de la Periere, a German descendant of French Huegenot refugees. During the Great War, he racked up a record as a submarine commander which has never been matched. He took or sank nearly 200 prizes (i don't recall the specific number). What is amazing is that he did so with his deck gun, usually, he hardly ever resorted to torpedoes. (People were still taking prizes, and sending them into be condemned for the prize money, although it was a failing business in that era--but using the deck gun meant that most of his victims surrendered, rather than being sunk.)

I believe he accounted for almost, or more than, an half-a-million tons of shipping.

German U-boats almost always surfaced to use their deck guns to sink merchant ships. The U-boats carried relatively few torpedoes, which they used mostly against armed naval ships rather than unarmed merchant vessels. The practice of surfacing to engage merchant vessels led the British to employ Q-ships as a response: armed ships disguised as merchant vessels designed to lure the U-boats to the surface and destroy them.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:11 pm
I'd thought that I could scan a German U-boat of that period.
However, I've only a book with all "enemy" ships here at home .... and made photos instead :wink:

http://i1.tinypic.com/61jhnap.jpg

Here, English submarines

http://i5.tinypic.com/5219q13.jpg
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:12 pm
And American

http://i9.tinypic.com/61n8av7.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/52220m0.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 01:12 pm
So, this German U-boat (from "The book of the German fleet" ['Das Buch von der deutschen Flotte'] from 1888) is a bit older and only a drawing ...


http://i1.tinypic.com/5zqfsqp.jpg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:13 pm
decided to bring luckner's book upstairs and copied two pictures .
the sailship was the "pass of balmaha"(1,850 BRT - 5,000 tons) which had been captured from the americans with a load of cotton destined for archangelks .
unbeknownst to the single german sailor who was to bring the ship into a german harbour , the american captain had locked up a british crew of four sailors in the hold in the hope of being allowed to kep the ship !
the brithish sailors had been taken aboard earlier to assisit the american crew in bringing the ship to archangelsk .

the ship sailed under the name "carmoe" , since it's measurements were almost identical .
the ship sailed under norwegian flag through the english blockade north of the shetland islands at the end of december 1916 during a pretty bad storm .
the deckcrew all spoke norwegian and all had been outfitted as norwegian sailors with clothing , letters and pictures of loved ones to make it as norwegian as possible .
one of the sailors - called "jeanette" :wink: - was dressed as a woman and played the "gubben's " (captain's) wife !
they figured quite correctly that the british boarding party that stopped and boarded the ship on december 25 would be particularly courteous to a woman .

the ship carried only two old and small cannons but could not fire both at the same time for fear of breaking apart the sailship !
they would usually sink the captured ships by explosives and opening of the seacocks rather than by gunfire .

the one thing that almost gave them away as german was a dog they had aboard . the officer of the british boarding party pointed at the dog and commented : "looks like a german dachshound ! ". Shocked

(posting pix separately)
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:27 pm
the "norwegian" deckcrew

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7778/luckner1bi8.jpg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:30 pm
the ship just carried a load of "norwegian" lumber

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3250/luckner4zv4.jpg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 May, 2007 02:39 pm
luckner in uniform with the "lovely jeanette"

jeanette would parade on the deck when a prize was coming into sight to give the impression that this was just a harmless old sailship ;
norwegian captain often had his wife aboard

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8732/luckner6dw9.jpg
0 Replies
 
Paaskynen
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 May, 2007 05:05 am
As promised: Barbary Pirates
Since the subject of the Barbary pirates is so broad. I have focused on the Dutch corsairs in the Service of the Barbary states.

The Barbary Coast refers to the shoreline of modern Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. It has been a haunt of pirates since ancient times, but the term Barbary pirates or corsairs as such refers especially to the fleets of pirates and privateers operating from Tripoli, Tunis, Algiers and Salé (Rabat) when they were semi-autonomous states in the Ottoman empire, i.e. during the 16th thru 18th centuries

The first half of the 17th century may be described as the flowering time of the Barbary pirates. More than 20,000 captives were said to be imprisoned in Algiers alone. The rich were allowed to redeem themselves, but the poor were condemned to slavery. Their masters would not in many cases allow them to secure freedom by converting to Islam. A long list might be given of people of good social position, not only Italians or Spaniards, but also German, Dutch and English travelers in the Levant, who were captives for a time.

Maarten Harpertsz Tromp (later admiral in the first Anglo-Dutch War) was captured by the British captain in Moroccan service, Peter Easton, and enslaved for two years in Salé (1609-1611), before being bought free. In 1618 he was back on the Barbary Coast as part of a Dutch expedition against Algiers and Tunis. On his way back home aboard a merchant ship he was again captured and kept for a year, this time by the Bey of Tunis, who offered him a position in his fleet in vain. This was an offer that other Dutch captains had accepted, when faced with the choice between slavery, or conversion to Islam (not everyone had hopes of being bought free).
Bontekoe (whose trials and tribulations I mentioned in an earlier post on page 11 of this thread) was bought free as a boy in 1617 by one of those captains who had "gone Turk", Sulayman Reis (Wynand de Veenboer), who hailed from the same hometown of Hoorn. Sulayman Reis had become an admiral of Turkey (but operating on behalf of the sultan of Algiers), who maintained his loyalty to his home country by liberating countrymen enslaved by other Barbary corsairs. He saw no problem however in capturing and enslaving other nationalities and it was during his reign that large scale attacks on British fishing fleets began.
His second in command and successor, Murat Reis the younger (Jan Jansz. of Haarlem), was even less scrupulous and became the terror of all shipping in both the Mediterranean and in the Atlantic, from his base in Salé (later Algiers). He sometimes sailed to the Netherlands in his function of Turkish admiral and had the habit of capturing ships on the way. Murat Reis exploited his knowledge of the Northern seas to raid as far North as Iceland (1627, he used a liberated Danish slave as pilot) where he took many prisoners to hold for ransom, or sell off as slaves. In 1631 he struck in Ireland capturing almost the entire population of the town of Baltimore, only two of those unfortunates ever saw Ireland again.
Both Suleyman and Murat Reis had learnt their trade from yet another Dutchman, Simon de Danser (a.k.a. Zymen Tantziger; the nickname "the dancer" referred to the Dutch slang for a pirate tour as a dance around the seas) of Dordrecht, who had started out as a privateer for the States of the Netherlands, but had turned pirate out of disagreements over the division of the profit. Simon de Danser did not attack Dutch shipping and never converted to Islam, but he became nonetheless a very respected man in his home base of Algiers. He is credited as the one who taught the Barbary corsairs to start using square-rigged sailing ships in addition to their traditional galleys. This and the enrolment (voluntary or forced) of European sailors in the corsair fleet enabled them to strike far from home in Northern Europe and even in the Caribbean. Attempts by the States of Holland to bribe him with a pardon as well as French, Spanish and British naval expeditions against him failed. Unfortunately, de Danser had a falling out with his masters and escaped from Algiers with a small fleet crewed only with Dutch and Flemish sailors (the Moors had "fallen overboard"). He sailed from there to Marseilles to accept the pardon of the French king and lead an expedition against Algiers. However, the French admirals, humiliated by him in earlier naval encounters resisted and instead de Danser was sent to Tunis to negotiate about the return of some captured ships. He made the mistake to believe the assurances of safe conduct by the Bey and went ashore, only to be promptly captured and decapitated (1611).
It did not always end that badly for the Dutch Barbary corsairs. Both Murat Reis and another of the 25 (!) contemporary Dutch corsair captains, Claes Compaen, ended their lives peacefully at home in Holland after buying an expensive pardon. Murat Reis' descendants eventually settled in New Amsterdam (New York) and are rumoured to to be among the ancestors of some of the best known Dutch-American families (like the Vanderbilts).

The problem in dealing with the Barabary corsairs was that the European powers failed to act in unison and tried instead to convince the pirates to attack only the ships of their enemies, while obtaining safe conduct for their own ships and the release of their countrymen from slavery (It is estimated that over the centuries Barbary pirates took as many as a million Christian slaves from European ships and shores). With the shifting of alliances in Europe and the succession of rulers in the Barbary ports these treaties never lasted very long. For example, after the Dutch republic had finally made peace with Spain in 1648, Dutch admiral van Galen led three expeditions against the Barbary corsairs (1648 to 1650) to protect the interests of the newly-won ally.

Between 1661 and 1663 famous Dutch admiral Michiel de Ruyter harassed the Barbary Coast sufficiently to force a treaty with the Bey of Algiers, but as with previous and subsequent treaties it was soon broken necessitating another punitive expedition in 1699 , with unsatisfactory results.
In 1670, England and the Dutch Republic sent a joint naval expedition against Algiers, which sank six vessels in port and shelled the city, much of which was then destroyed by fire. Algiers, as the main hub of the Barbary pirates had already been shelled earlier by the British in 1622 and 1655, by French vessels in 1661 and 1663 and later again in 1682, 1683 and 1688, always with at best only temporary results.

These punitive expeditions continued on and off during the 18th century and became to include the newly-founded United States as well, who carried out two punitive expeditions (The first Barbary War, 1801-1805 and the Second Barbary War 1815), but it was not until after the Napoleonic wars that Europe could finally make a fist and the Anglo-Dutch expedition of 1816 laid waste to Algiers and led to the release of thousands of European prisoners. Still another British expedition was needed in 1824 and the pirate activity in the area did not cease until the French finally conquered Algiers in 1830.

(pic of the bombardment of Algiers 1816)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Bombardementd_alger-1830.jpg/800px-Bombardementd_alger-1830.jpg
0 Replies
 
material girl
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 May, 2007 05:07 am
Apart from filling in a business account form I have done nothing today but lok at pirate stuff.Im obsessed...obsessed I tell you!!!Gaaaarrrrr.
0 Replies
 
 

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