1
   

The Great Qu'ran Carnival

 
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2005 07:04 pm
Darn. Registration required. If you are registered, could you bring it? I would LOVE to see what the ACLU feels they have to hide.

My. How the crusader of morality has stumbled...
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jun, 2005 08:43 pm
Happy to accommodate.

Quote:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/logoprinter.gif

June 5, 2005
Concerns Arise at A.C.L.U. Over Document Shredding

By STEPHANIE STROM


The American Civil Liberties Union has been shredding some documents over the repeated objections of its records manager and in conflict with its longstanding policies on the preservation and disposal of records.

The matter has fueled a dispute at the organization over internal operations, one of several such debates over the last couple of years, and has reignited questions over whether the A.C.L.U.'s own practices are as clear as its public positions.

The organization has generally advocated for strong policies on record retention and benefited from them, most recently obtaining and publicizing documents from the government about prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

The debate over the use of shredders is reminiscent of one late last year over the organization's efforts to collect a wide variety of data on its donors, even as it criticizes corporations and government agencies for accumulating personal data as a violation of privacy rights.

Janet Linde, who oversaw the A.C.L.U.'s archives for over a decade until she resigned last month, raised concerns in e-mail messages and memorandums for over two years that officials' use of shredders in their offices made a mockery of the organization's policy to supervise document destruction and created potential legal risks.

"It has been shown in many legal cases over the years, including the Enron case, that if a company has an established and documented shredding program they will not be liable if documents at issue in a lawsuit are found to have been destroyed," Ms. Linde wrote in a 2003 memo. "If, however, the means for unauthorized shredding is present in the office we cannot say that we have made a good faith effort to monitor and document our records disposal process."

Ms. Linde said she was disturbed that her correspondence had become public and declined to comment further. A spokeswoman for the organization, Emily Whitfield, declined to answer specific questions but made the following statement: "The A.C.L.U.'s records management policies have always been of the highest standards in keeping with, if not more stringent than, those of other nonprofits."

The organization refused to address which documents were being shredded, among other questions.

Shredding has become more closely controlled after scandals arising from questionable record-keeping have rocked the corporate world.

Congress has amended the criminal code to permit fines and jail sentences for those who alter, destroy, mutilate or conceal documents with the intent of preventing their use in official proceedings. Many lawyers for companies and nonprofit entities have advised their clients to enact strict policies on records management.

The A.C.L.U. allows for document shredding but has policies for recording what is destroyed that predate recent changes in the law, and it has historically placed great emphasis on preserving records. Its policy lists specific types of documents - including duplicate records and outside publications - that can be destroyed without creating a record. For other materials, employees are instructed to contact the archives.

In a speech to the Society of American Archivists last year, Nadine Strossen, the president of the A.C.L.U., said that at its inception in 1920, the civil liberties group arranged for the New York Public Library to archive its records and those of its predecessor organization.

"I'm especially impressed by how prescient the A.C.L.U.'s founders were in understanding the importance of preserving our organizational records," Ms. Strossen said.

In 2003, the Archivists Round Table of Metropolitan New York gave Ms. Linde an award for her role in helping draft and enact a public records law after Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, moved records from his administration to a private institution.

Under the A.C.L.U.'s policy, employees deposit documents, disks and other files slated for destruction in locked bins in their departments. They are required to complete and sign a form next to the box, describing what they have deposited.

A contractor collects the bins each month and shreds the contents under the watch of an A.C.L.U. records manager, who then countersigns the sheets to confirm the destruction.

So when Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the organization, casually mentioned to a group of employees in 2002, about a year after his arrival, that he had a shredder in his office, they were shocked, said two former employees who did not want their names used because they feared it would interfere with future employment. Mr. Romero was told it was a violation of policy, the former employees said, but no one pushed the issue.

That encounter came several months after the New York attorney general's office had begun an inquiry into security breaches on the A.C.L.U.'s Web site that had resulted in leaks of information about donors and members. The organization is sensitive to such leaks, given past government scrutiny of its membership.

"As an advocacy organization dedicated to protecting privacy," Ms. Whitfield said on Friday, "we take very seriously the confidentiality of our donor records and have policies in place to ensure proper document management procedures."

To end the attorney general's inquiry in December 2002, Mr. Romero signed an agreement that obliged the organization to strengthen its online and computer security and pay a $10,000 fine, a cost covered by the company that manages their Web site, where the problems originated.

The organization hired Richard M. Smith, an Internet and computer security expert, to examine its practices and offer suggestions for improvement. Among other things, he recommended that shredders be installed in every department to make document disposal more convenient.

In a July 2002 e-mail message to Barry Steinhardt, an A.C.L.U. lawyer who specializes in matters of privacy, Ms. Linde objected to that recommendation, saying that Mr. Smith seemed unaware of the organization's document retention policy. She noted that she had asked to sit in on his audit but had been excluded.

Employees began noticing shredders next to copiers throughout the organization in early 2003, according to e-mails.

Ms. Linde wrote a memorandum voicing her concerns, so the A.C.L.U. sought advice from the law firm that handles its real estate matters in Washington, D.C. The firm forwarded a report that echoed many of Ms. Linde's points, and several shredders were removed, according to memorandums.

Mr. Romero kept his shredder, as did Alma Montclair, the director of administration and finance, according to those memorandums. Later, records managers noted that the accounting and human resources departments had shredders, and, more recently, that Donna McKay, the A.C.L.U.'s director of development, had one, too.

To track what was being destroyed on those machines, the records managers attempted to impose a system similar to the one used for the locked bins, putting document destruction sheets next to all the shredders except Mr. Romero's about a year ago. Employees in the departments with the shredders signed the sheets, according to a memorandums, but rarely noted what they were shredding.

In January 2004, an employee found bags of shredded documents outside a freight elevator and alerted the archival staff. "We really need to get this shredding documented if there is that much of it going on," Ms. Linde then wrote to David Baird, who worked with Ms. Montclair.

Mr. Baird responded that he knew nothing about the bags and defended the shredding of documents with Social Security numbers, salary information and other information in Ms. Montclair's administration and finance department.

"It is not clear to either Alma or I the specific reasons why shredding these clearly confidential documents needs to be reported to you," Mr. Baird wrote in an e-mail message.

Ms. Linde wrote back, "This is the kind of thing that gets companies and organizations into lawsuits."

She was eventually told that the shredded documents in the bags were résumés from the human resources department, a memorandum said.

Copyright 2005 | The New York Times Company


Now, there's really not much of a "THERE" there, but if you want to manufacture an issue, it resembles raw material. At least to those from the Dan Rather school of journalism. Of course, it doesn't lay their way, so it won't get any play.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 12:26 am
Lash wrote:
Brandon--

I understand your sentiments very well.

To me, it is insulting for any American to be concerned about book kicking in the face of the fact that most of those detainees would gladly slice the heads off of Westerners, their beloved wives and children.

To focus in on something that means nothing and hurts no one seems like taking sides in the issue--

Why would someone take the side of the ones who want to kill us?

<in search of a Koran to kick>


This is unbelievable, and not just this one ridiculous posting from Lash. Who headed up this posse, Gungasnake?

I'm not at all surprized that Timber and Brandon, [was it just the two of them or were there more of the usual suspects?, oh yeah, Tico put in a showing but hopefully, to his credit, he left; maybe his horse was in being shoed] jumped on their horses, grabbed a rope and yelled "let's ride, gunga!".

But Lash, I would have thought you were better than this. How did you let yourself get tricked into such fallacious reasoning?

People who are patriotic don't have to wear it on their sleeve. BVT laid out for you very clearly his patriotism, to wit,

Quote:
I love my home as much as you do buddy, but I'm not blind and my view of the world goes beyond you the earth is flat people who think the edge of the planet is three miles out from our borders.

I love my wife, children, friends and relatives. Hell I love myself, but I'm also aware of my friends, loved ones and my own faults and because I'm aware of them my love is not diminished. Grow up.


But that didn't stop the lynch mob from continuing for how many pages. Patriotism really is the place where scoundrels take refuge.

A prosecutor prosecutes citizens - The wingnuts: "You hate citizens, look everyone, he hates citizens". I've never heard him say nor have I ever seen any of his writing that says he loves or even likes citizens. Show us where you've said you like citizens, hah, you can't, can you? What did we tell you, everyone?

I ask Lash, Brandon, Timber; "Have you no sense of decency, Sirs?

Have you the slightest sense of logic? The "Disasembler" Gang rides again.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 12:31 am
I just kicked my Koran, just for you JTT.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 12:34 am
JTT wrote:
...But that didn't stop the lynch mob from continuing for how many pages. Patriotism really is the place where scoundrels take refuge.

A prosecutor prosecutes citizens - The wingnuts: "You hate citizens, look everyone, he hates citizens". I've never heard him say nor have I ever seen any of his writing that says he loves or even likes citizens. Show us where you've said you like citizens, hah, you can't, can you? What did we tell you, everyone?

I ask Lash, Brandon, Timber; "Have you no sense of decency, Sirs?

Have you the slightest sense of logic?

What specifically are you accusing me of? No hyperbole, no attempts to change the subject, just tell me the specific accusation against me. If you have a "sense of logic," you ought to be able to calmly tell me the exact accusation.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 12:37 am
Ticomaya wrote:
I just kicked my Koran, just for you JTT.


I held out an inkling, a scintilla of hope that Tico wasn't cut from the same cloth. I now lie crushed, disappointed beyond measure. Shocked
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 12:46 am
{BORROWED FROM Dlowan; ORIGINALLY POSTED IN "NEWSWEEK LIED PEOPLE DIED Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:38 pm Post: 1379988 }

JTT: This is so f**king apropos, Ms Lowan, that I just had to move it here. Thanks.


dlowan wrote:
The worst of the right have already determined their strategy.

First:

a. it never happened, and HOW DARE YOU BLACKEN THE NAME OF EVERY DECENT AMERICAN ON THE PLANET BY SUGGESTING IT DID - you must be aTERRORIST SYMPATHIZER- how long have you and saddam been in bed together - and on they drearily drone.

When it is proven - but ONLY according to the US military or government, the tack is:

b. It doesn't matter


Plan c - often used with a and b is -

THEY DESERVED IT - THEY ARE WAY WORSE THAN WE ARE!


Pardon my ire - I am watching my own government and the racists in it ducking and weaving re Australia's goddamn gulag....


Oh - I forgot plan d - we are moving on, that was in the past - point to something that isn't ancient history, you know, less than five minutes ago.

The very worst of the worst of the right snicker - and say, just try to stop us - Macht machts Recht.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 12:52 am
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I just kicked my Koran, just for you JTT.


I held out an inkling, a scintilla of hope that Tico wasn't cut from the same cloth. I now lie crushed, disappointed beyond measure. Shocked


<kicked it again>
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 12:59 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
JTT wrote:
...But that didn't stop the lynch mob from continuing for how many pages. Patriotism really is the place where scoundrels take refuge.

A prosecutor prosecutes citizens - The wingnuts: "You hate citizens, look everyone, he hates citizens". I've never heard him say nor have I ever seen any of his writing that says he loves or even likes citizens. Show us where you've said you like citizens, hah, you can't, can you? What did we tell you, everyone?

I ask Lash, Brandon, Timber; "Have you no sense of decency, Sirs?

Have you the slightest sense of logic?

What specifically are you accusing me of? No hyperbole, no attempts to change the subject, just tell me the specific accusation against me. If you have a "sense of logic," you ought to be able to calmly tell me the exact accusation.

So, you accuse me of some unspecified bad behavior that carries with it the implication of possessing no decency. Then, when asked to state the charge clearly, you run away. Nice.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 01:02 am
Ticomaya wrote:
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I just kicked my Koran, just for you JTT.


I held out an inkling, a scintilla of hope that Tico wasn't cut from the same cloth. I now lie crushed, disappointed beyond measure. Shocked


<kicked it again>


I'm not at all sure which I admire most, Tico, your intelligence or your eloquence. "Careful with that axe, Tico", you don't have many toes left.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 01:10 am
timberlandko wrote:
Happy to accommodate.

Quote:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/logoprinter.gif

June 5, 2005
Concerns Arise at A.C.L.U. Over Document Shredding

By STEPHANIE STROM


The American Civil Liberties Union has been shredding some documents over the repeated objections of its records manager and in conflict with its longstanding policies on the preservation and disposal of records.

The matter has fueled a dispute at the organization over internal operations, one of several such debates over the last couple of years, and has reignited questions over whether the A.C.L.U.'s own practices are as clear as its public positions.

The organization has generally advocated for strong policies on record retention and benefited from them, most recently obtaining and publicizing documents from the government about prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

The debate over the use of shredders is reminiscent of one late last year over the organization's efforts to collect a wide variety of data on its donors, even as it criticizes corporations and government agencies for accumulating personal data as a violation of privacy rights.

Janet Linde, who oversaw the A.C.L.U.'s archives for over a decade until she resigned last month, raised concerns in e-mail messages and memorandums for over two years that officials' use of shredders in their offices made a mockery of the organization's policy to supervise document destruction and created potential legal risks.

"It has been shown in many legal cases over the years, including the Enron case, that if a company has an established and documented shredding program they will not be liable if documents at issue in a lawsuit are found to have been destroyed," Ms. Linde wrote in a 2003 memo. "If, however, the means for unauthorized shredding is present in the office we cannot say that we have made a good faith effort to monitor and document our records disposal process."

Ms. Linde said she was disturbed that her correspondence had become public and declined to comment further. A spokeswoman for the organization, Emily Whitfield, declined to answer specific questions but made the following statement: "The A.C.L.U.'s records management policies have always been of the highest standards in keeping with, if not more stringent than, those of other nonprofits."

The organization refused to address which documents were being shredded, among other questions.

Shredding has become more closely controlled after scandals arising from questionable record-keeping have rocked the corporate world.

Congress has amended the criminal code to permit fines and jail sentences for those who alter, destroy, mutilate or conceal documents with the intent of preventing their use in official proceedings. Many lawyers for companies and nonprofit entities have advised their clients to enact strict policies on records management.

The A.C.L.U. allows for document shredding but has policies for recording what is destroyed that predate recent changes in the law, and it has historically placed great emphasis on preserving records. Its policy lists specific types of documents - including duplicate records and outside publications - that can be destroyed without creating a record. For other materials, employees are instructed to contact the archives.

In a speech to the Society of American Archivists last year, Nadine Strossen, the president of the A.C.L.U., said that at its inception in 1920, the civil liberties group arranged for the New York Public Library to archive its records and those of its predecessor organization.

"I'm especially impressed by how prescient the A.C.L.U.'s founders were in understanding the importance of preserving our organizational records," Ms. Strossen said.

In 2003, the Archivists Round Table of Metropolitan New York gave Ms. Linde an award for her role in helping draft and enact a public records law after Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, moved records from his administration to a private institution.

Under the A.C.L.U.'s policy, employees deposit documents, disks and other files slated for destruction in locked bins in their departments. They are required to complete and sign a form next to the box, describing what they have deposited.

A contractor collects the bins each month and shreds the contents under the watch of an A.C.L.U. records manager, who then countersigns the sheets to confirm the destruction.

So when Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the organization, casually mentioned to a group of employees in 2002, about a year after his arrival, that he had a shredder in his office, they were shocked, said two former employees who did not want their names used because they feared it would interfere with future employment. Mr. Romero was told it was a violation of policy, the former employees said, but no one pushed the issue.

That encounter came several months after the New York attorney general's office had begun an inquiry into security breaches on the A.C.L.U.'s Web site that had resulted in leaks of information about donors and members. The organization is sensitive to such leaks, given past government scrutiny of its membership.

"As an advocacy organization dedicated to protecting privacy," Ms. Whitfield said on Friday, "we take very seriously the confidentiality of our donor records and have policies in place to ensure proper document management procedures."

To end the attorney general's inquiry in December 2002, Mr. Romero signed an agreement that obliged the organization to strengthen its online and computer security and pay a $10,000 fine, a cost covered by the company that manages their Web site, where the problems originated.

The organization hired Richard M. Smith, an Internet and computer security expert, to examine its practices and offer suggestions for improvement. Among other things, he recommended that shredders be installed in every department to make document disposal more convenient.

In a July 2002 e-mail message to Barry Steinhardt, an A.C.L.U. lawyer who specializes in matters of privacy, Ms. Linde objected to that recommendation, saying that Mr. Smith seemed unaware of the organization's document retention policy. She noted that she had asked to sit in on his audit but had been excluded.

Employees began noticing shredders next to copiers throughout the organization in early 2003, according to e-mails.

Ms. Linde wrote a memorandum voicing her concerns, so the A.C.L.U. sought advice from the law firm that handles its real estate matters in Washington, D.C. The firm forwarded a report that echoed many of Ms. Linde's points, and several shredders were removed, according to memorandums.

Mr. Romero kept his shredder, as did Alma Montclair, the director of administration and finance, according to those memorandums. Later, records managers noted that the accounting and human resources departments had shredders, and, more recently, that Donna McKay, the A.C.L.U.'s director of development, had one, too.

To track what was being destroyed on those machines, the records managers attempted to impose a system similar to the one used for the locked bins, putting document destruction sheets next to all the shredders except Mr. Romero's about a year ago. Employees in the departments with the shredders signed the sheets, according to a memorandums, but rarely noted what they were shredding.

In January 2004, an employee found bags of shredded documents outside a freight elevator and alerted the archival staff. "We really need to get this shredding documented if there is that much of it going on," Ms. Linde then wrote to David Baird, who worked with Ms. Montclair.

Mr. Baird responded that he knew nothing about the bags and defended the shredding of documents with Social Security numbers, salary information and other information in Ms. Montclair's administration and finance department.

"It is not clear to either Alma or I the specific reasons why shredding these clearly confidential documents needs to be reported to you," Mr. Baird wrote in an e-mail message.

Ms. Linde wrote back, "This is the kind of thing that gets companies and organizations into lawsuits."

She was eventually told that the shredded documents in the bags were résumés from the human resources department, a memorandum said.

Copyright 2005 | The New York Times Company


Now, there's really not much of a "THERE" there, but if you want to manufacture an issue, it resembles raw material. At least to those from the Dan Rather school of journalism. Of course, it doesn't lay their way, so it won't get any play.


If you don't think there's any there there, then why bring it up to me as if to say...So!!! and what of this? As if I share some taint with the ACLU and you've just uncovered some smoking gun that convicts me of something? Laughing You guys are killing me. Laughing that is.

I come home from a great night and find this is still going on. I'm flattered you guys.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 01:51 am
blueveinedthrobber wrote:

If you don't think there's any there there, then why bring it up to me as if to say...So!!! and what of this? As if I share some taint with the ACLU and you've just uncovered some smoking gun that convicts me of something? Laughing You guys are killing me. Laughing that is.

I come home from a great night and find this is still going on. I'm flattered you guys.


Damn, it was like their horses had done hit a wall. I think they went thataway, BVT. Hightailed it outa here, headin' for them there Patriotic Mountains, the last hideout for scoundrels.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 06:57 am
You flatter yourselves, kids, and only in your own eyes. The only wall to be seen is the one The Democratic Party is building between itself and The Electorate with just that sort of nonsense. The People not only are not as dumb as The Democrats think they are, they resent hell outta the allegations. But please, don't believe me - keep up the good work.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 08:32 am
If you wanna see another couple of "disassemblers" check out this video of Matt Drudge and Sean Banality smooching with each other, passing off lies and distortions and easily as they breath until they are called on them and asked to defend their "positions".

Video available at:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/

under the title,

"Matt Drudge attacks the left as hating the military. His proof: Instant messenger"
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 09:02 am
JTT wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:

If you don't think there's any there there, then why bring it up to me as if to say...So!!! and what of this? As if I share some taint with the ACLU and you've just uncovered some smoking gun that convicts me of something? Laughing You guys are killing me. Laughing that is.

I come home from a great night and find this is still going on. I'm flattered you guys.


Damn, it was like their horses had done hit a wall. I think they went thataway, BVT. Hightailed it outa here, headin' for them there Patriotic Mountains, the last hideout for scoundrels.


No, it was just that I posted at three am when I came in. This group will never runout of spin and never address a point directly, exactly what they accuse me of here and many others many other places.

As far as me being a democrat, I never was one until bush was elected. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 09:03 am
JTT wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
I just kicked my Koran, just for you JTT.


I held out an inkling, a scintilla of hope that Tico wasn't cut from the same cloth. I now lie crushed, disappointed beyond measure. Shocked

Well, my God. Shouldn't you be off recouperating somewhere?

And, so you know--as I said, I don't seek out judgeships of "patriotism". I think my time on the bench is best spent judging my own motives--but Brandon asked a question--people have a habit of doing that here. Rather than downgrade and attack him for it--I thought it was be infinitely easier to answer it.

There doesn't seem to be sacred ground when liberals question conservatives, I don't think we should stake out any sacred ground for you and your perennially disjointed minions.

Additionally, I have peed on my new Koran in your honor. Laughing

<Picturing JTT lying crushed,....>
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 09:04 am
timberlandko wrote:
You flatter yourselves, kids, and only in your own eyes. The only wall to be seen is the one The Democratic Party is building between itself and The Electorate with just that sort of nonsense. The People not only are not as dumb as The Democrats think they are, they resent hell outta the allegations. But please, don't believe me - keep up the good work.


that would certainly explain bushs' plunge in the polls. You keep up the good work there friend. Laughing
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 09:10 am
Lash wrote:
Additionally, I have peed on my new Koran in your honor. Laughing


A competition with Tico to see who can put up the most morally repugnant posting. So far, Lash, you're ahead by half a length.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 09:14 am
My work is done.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jun, 2005 09:21 am
Lash wrote:
My work is done.


Perhaps, you can find gainful employment with this fella, Lash.

Quote:

Any crowd will do for Schundler

Friday, June 3, 2005

By LAURA FASBACH
TRENTON BUREAU

Laura Reznick weaved in and out of the crowd at a Democratic rally last summer so she could share a photo op with her political hero, Howard Dean.

Little did the South Jersey native know that the photo would reappear a year later - but this time with her cheering on conservative Republican Bret Schundler, who's running for governor in New Jersey.

A case of a young woman's political transformation? Not quite.

Schundler's campaign Web site had been displaying a digitally altered photo of the Democratic rally she attended last year in Falls Church, Va. In the doctored version, Schundler campaign signs replace the Dean signs. A staid Schundler in suit and tie fills the foreground once occupied by a grinning Dean in shirt sleeves. And Reznick discovered she was wearing a "Schundler Reform Governor" cap where her Dean campaign hat was perched.

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2MDcmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY3MDMxOTEmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXky
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 02/13/2025 at 01:06:59