9
   

What Fascism is and isnt.

 
 
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2019 01:53 pm
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2019 02:45 pm
@tsarstepan,
It took him 22 minutes to point out we have a fascist president.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2019 03:24 pm
mark
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2019 04:30 pm
@RABEL222,
That sounds like a strange criticism. I've not seen it, but at what point do you think he should have said it?
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2019 04:32 pm
@izzythepush,
At the beginning of the movie. Than I wouldent have had to listen to 22 minutes of propoganda.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2019 07:55 pm
@tsarstepan,
I am not sure that anti-fascist extremism is that much better than fascist extremism. When the anti-fascists start calling for speech to be censored and advocating for violence it is kind of hard to tell them apart.

I am anti-extremist.
McGentrix
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 3 Sep, 2019 07:56 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

It took him 22 minutes to point out we have a fascist president.


You guys have a President in la-la-land?
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 12:15 am
@McGentrix,
Very good description of Trumps Washington d c.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 12:57 am
@RABEL222,
Aren't they explaining why he's a fascist? Saying it at the beginning without any evidence seems pointless to me.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 06:24 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am not sure that anti-fascist extremism is that much better than fascist extremism. When the anti-fascists start calling for speech to be censored and advocating for violence it is kind of hard to tell them apart.

I am anti-extremist.

YAY! Because I'm literally sure you DIDN'T watch the video in question (other than the first couple of minutes). Because that wasn't clearly the point of the very academic video he created.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 06:44 am
@tsarstepan,
Some years I saw a very similar video with all of the evidence that Obama was a fascist. I am going to google for for it. They had great footage of large crowds at an Obama rally... which with ominous music and a serious sounding narrator is quite convincing.

I kind of feel like they had the same narrator. This idea makes me laugh... getting money from both sides shows the guy really understands what is going on here.

That is classic propaganda. It is build up to a conclusion you already believe, and presents "evidence" designed to appeal to the target audience.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 09:39 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

They had great footage of large crowds at an Obama rally... which with ominous music and a serious sounding narrator is quite convincing.

That's relevant how? 99% of the video here isn't Trump footage but footage from Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will.

Quote:
I kind of feel like they had the same narrator. This idea makes me laugh... getting money from both sides shows the guy really understands what is going on here.

That is classic propaganda. It is build up to a conclusion you already believe, and presents "evidence" designed to appeal to the target audience.


Watch the video or shut up. This literally isn't solely Trump dump video. It bares all the academic sources openly on its sleeves. The filmmaker in it has 100% more academic and philosophic street cred than any garbage you posted here on the philosophy threads here at a2k.

And NO. He wasn't the narrator in whatever garbage you speak. He's a film critic who also specialized in Shakespeare related films. So? Your nonsense just vomited in kneejerkish reaction (simply for lazy ****'s sake)? What a waste of digital space. Watch it and then try to claim this? It will be safe to say... you're stoned. Watch it and disagree with his assessment? That would be your prerogative. But jumping to this meaningless and unproven conclusion? You still can't be the Jesus figure to unite both sides by being deliberately deadfast in the dead center. It just doesn't work that way.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 10:14 am
@izzythepush,
I would think that looking at his record as president for the last 2 and 1/2 years would be enough, to say nothing of his record in business. Not everyone can reduce a billion dollar inheritance to less than 100 million dollars.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 10:32 am
@tsarstepan,
Academic sources? Where?

I skimmed over the video (thank God for speedup mode). He gives a list of criteria for what "fascism" is that has zero sourcing. He combines this with ominous music and stock footage of Nazis.

This is pretty standard propaganda.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 10:39 am
@tsarstepan,
It is important to point out and challenge propaganda... the question is what do the makers of this video want you to think and do? The easiest way to justify your own extremism is to point to a more extreme adversary.

Imagine of the political left came right out and said what they want... "we need to censor speech, prevent discussion of diverse viewpoints in colleges and prevent expression of people who disagree with us". This wouldn't sound very reasonable.

However somehow the political thinks that saying "we need to censor speech, prevent discussion of diverse viewpoints in colleges and prevent expression of people who disagree with us... because Nazis" is more reasonable.

It is classic ideological propaganda. If you think there is valid sources they give.... then please list them here and let's discuss them.

If you listen to ideological propaganda, every president in the past 40 years has been a fascist.


tsarstepan
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 10:57 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

It is important to point out and challenge propaganda...

You're a lazy idiot. Calling something you literally didn't watch propaganda... as an argument against it. Simply because the term is a mace to bash on the head of the creator? Wow.

Quote:
what do the makers of this video want you to think and do?

If you watched it? The creator wants the viewer to exercise critical thinking. He acknowledges that some if not many will disagree with the points of his argument.

Quote:

It is classic ideological propaganda. If you think there is valid sources they give.... then please list them here and let's discuss them.

It's not my job to do the work that simply watching a video will suffice. Lazy AF.

Quote:
If you listen to ideological propaganda, every president in the past 40 years has been a fascist.

Laughing Laughing
The purpose of the video is to define what is and isn't fascism. And I believe you clearly failed every political science and/or history class simply with this hyperbolic insane generalization. Words have meaning. You shouldn't shotgun blast EVERYONE in the face with these idiotic statements.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 01:34 pm
@tsarstepan,
I watched the video (thank god for speed controls). I didn't see a persuasive argument. I suspect that this is because I didn't start with an ideological conclusion. I would be curious if anyone had their mind changed by this video (I suspect that anyone who agrees with this video thought Trump was a "fascist" before they watched it).

The point of the video is to "define what is and isn't fascism..." in such a way that it matches the writer's ideological narrative. He provides no sources for his made up definition of fascism.

This matters because defining your political opponents as "fascists" makes dialog impossible and extremism acceptable. If the other side are Nazis then whatever you do to stop them is acceptable. This is why you are seeing actions from the left that would be normally be socially unacceptable.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 4 Sep, 2019 01:42 pm
@tsarstepan,
The irony is that Trump benefits from the extreme left. Every time a speaker at a college is shouted down, or some "nazi" get's beaten, or some worker gets doxed it drives a political wedge through the American public.

If the election is seen as a battle between the extreme right and the extreme left, Trump wins. It fits Trump's narrative perfectly when you get outraged right wingers and outraged left wingers yelling at each other. It is almost like the outraged left wants Trump to win... they are handing him exactly what he needs.

I want Trump to lose. And, I want him to lose because Americans choose policy over rage and progress over ideology.

Getting Americans to scream at each other about who is a Nazi doesn't help. And, that is exactly what this video is part of doing.
Jewels Vern
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 5 Sep, 2019 03:47 pm
Nobody agrees on a definition of "fascism", not even the people who invented the concept. The only thing everybody agrees on is the use of military action to enforce the government's domestic objectives.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 6 Sep, 2019 06:03 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am not sure that anti-fascist extremism is that much better than fascist extremism. When the anti-fascists start calling for speech to be censored and advocating for violence it is kind of hard to tell them apart.

I am anti-extremist.

Fascism begets more fascism. Extremism begets more extremism. Democracy and liberty have potential as a remedy, but people have to understand them and use them in a way that moves away from authoritarian culture.

When people use democracy as a structural system to compete for control so they can avoid consensus-building through respectful civil discourse that listens to all POVs, that just results in more authoritarianism under the guise of 'democracy.'

Likewise, when accusing others of undermining democracy is exploited as a means of blocking actual democracy, that also just results in more authoritarianism.

It's very hard for everyone to listen to and respect each others' POVs without some people seeing it as an opportunity to covertly or overtly pursue goals in an authoritarian way, or to establish corporations and other NGOs that operate and facilitate authoritarian culture in various ways, at various levels of society.
0 Replies
 
 

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