Antiwar protests.

How about just writing "I am hopelessly out of touch with reality"? That seems to sum up your position from where I'm sitting.

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I agree, total lack of touch with reality! A Limbaugh offshoot.

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If We Could Only Return To The Good Old Days, Certain People Would Have To Wear The Scarlet "L".

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dyslexia wrote:

How about just writing "I am hopelessly out of touch with reality"? That seems to sum up your position from where I'm sitting.

Boy, this is a touch crowd! Did everyone leave their sense of humor home in a drawer today?

I guess I just get a bit tired of hearing this ignorant mantra of how our president wasn't elected. I understand that people wish he hadn't been. I wished Clinton had lost, but I didn't spend 8 years pretending he wasn't president when he was. (That to me is being "hopelessly out of touch with reality".)

But, if anyone took offense, (Tartarin), I apologize.

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I didn't take offense, Tres. The difference remains: Clinton was president, Bush isn't. Not nice. Reality isn't nice.

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Tartarin wrote:

I didn't take offense, Tres. The difference remains: Clinton was president, Bush isn't. Not nice. Reality isn't nice.

Sorry Tart, you've already shown you are unwilling to even acknowledge reality on that issue. Your opinion on an issue on which you would actively choose to hide from the truth is worthless.

And frankly, it doesn't lend an air of credibility to anything else you might choose to share.

I hate to put it that way, but facts are facts. That you choose to cover your eyes when someone places them in front of you does not make them just go away.

The "difference" is that I am dealing with reality, and you are not.

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Quote:

Your opinion on an issue on which you would actively choose to hide from the truth is worthless.
The "difference" is that I am dealing with reality, and you are not.

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Quote:

Your opinion on an issue on which you would actively choose to hide from the truth is worthless. The "difference" is that [we are] dealing with reality, and you are not.

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Dys and Bill. You both seem like fairly intelligent folks. Care to show me where I am wrong and you (and Tartarin) are right? Or are you happy to play childish mimic games?

I have stated and shown that Bush was legally elected. Are you claiming you can prove otherwise? If so, please educate me! Otherwise, grow up.

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Tres -- Along with some others, I spent a lot of time and hard drive collecting materials about the 2000 election which left no doubt in my mind that Bush was "made," not elected -- the way in which the election appeared on the surface could easily be supported by facts. So I'm not new to the field, naive, or purely biased. There's no point quoting rules and law in Florida -- any more than there is any point doing so, evidently, with the Bush administration. So that's that.

Let us switch to a side topic for a moment -- how do you suppose that a Secretary of State who was demonstrated to have broken both the state election rules and the law in Florida was elected to Congress?

I'll let you make your answer without responding, rather than protract this tangential issue in a forum which is about antiwar protests.

Slightly closer to the subject at hand: Achmed Chalabi, the Iraqi dissident in London, is returning to Iraq today. A Shi-ite businessman, he is the Bush administration's choice for the new leadership in Iraq. And he's a PERFECT Bush administration choice. A convicted felon (embezzlement), he is persona non grata in Jordan... That'll be handy. He'll fit right into Bush's great new international alliance.

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Not playing your games Tres, they are childish and unproductive!

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Here we are 18 months from the next election and people are still arguing about whether Bush was elected or selected. Elected or selected based he is now the legal president. The argument is as fruitful as baying at the moon.

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Now, look, folks, goading is just as childish and unproductive as responding to it.

I'll say this slowly;

What part of

No

Personal

Attacks

Is causing the confusion?

Where's the disconnect? Nobody wants to see it, everybody objects when it happens, yet it occurs with tedious regularity. That shoe's guaranteed to pinch anybody's foot ... why keep trying it on? The baiting game is not the debating game.

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au1929 wrote:

Here we are 18 months from the next election and people are still arguing about whether Bush was elected or selected. Elected or selected based he is now the legal president. The argument is as fruitful as baying at the moon.

I think reasonable people would take the continuing unease about how bush reached office as not just "baying at the moon", but rather as evidence that a whole lot of good old everyday Americans are fairly knowledgeable about the matter, think that election was crooked, and don't want to ever let anyone forget it. Whenever I hear someone responding to their opponents over a heated point of difference with "you should just get over it", my BS antenna goes up. Are we living in a fantasy world because the events of the last presidential election still scarf our senses to even think about, or are you living in one because you think we should just "suck it up and drive on"?

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snood
For over 2 years people have been pissing and moaning about how this president has been ordained. IMO it is exactly that baying at the moon. An exercise in futility. I should think anyone who hasn't heard the arguments by this time is probably lying under a tombstone. The mourning period is IMO over.

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I don't know if it will ever be over au, it will be in the history books. I would have thought there would have been a turnout in 2002 to reflect this - it twasn't. I believe that it is important to keep it in mind to reflect on the turnout of 2004. Elections do not go to the best man, they aren't even won or lost - it is the turnout!

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Au -- I'm fascinated by the standards you apply here, as though you were saying, if a wrong is done and enough time goes by, hey, don't let it worry you anymore. Not only was something terrible done in 2000 but it continues to be done every day Bush remains in office, not only because he wasn't duly elected but because of the harm he is doing in office. I'm not even sure how to respond to your "get over it." I'm kind of startled by it, coming as it does from an intelligent and thoughful person.

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Tartarin
How Bush has performed in office has nothing to do with how he got there. If he had turned out to be the greatest thing since apple pie would that in any way have made his ascendency any less illegitimate. Of course not. I just don't believe we should continue to cry over spilt milk. It is a waste of time and energy. That is my personal philosophy. I don't believe in looking back and crying about what might have been. I believe we should look forward towards what will be. And that is the defeat of Bush and his evil band in 04.

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au, isn't it still another evil act for him to have gotten there.

I agree not to dwell on it, but don't forget. It is entrenched in me as much as Remember the Alamo and Remember the Maine - regardless of some of the questionable acts surrounding both these events.

Remember the unPresident and vote against him again in 2004!

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au1929 wrote:

Tartarin
How Bush has performed in office has nothing to do with how he got there. If he had turned out to be the greatest thing since apple pie would that in any way have made his ascendency any less illegitimate. Of course not. I just don't believe we should continue to cry over spilt milk. It is a waste of time and energy. That is my personal philosophy. I don't believe in looking back and crying about what might have been. I believe we should look forward towards what will be. And that is the defeat of Bush and his evil band in 04.

Right. Well, one's personal estimation of when a horse needs no more beating notwithstanding, the events of November 2000 are uniquely worthy of continuing discussion, dissection and examination, IMO. For several reasons. Not the least of those being that we want to make damn sure that particular kind of skullduggery doesn't happen again.

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