How Dare We Call It a War!

We call it one because it is one.

Hi Nurse! Long time no rankle!!

oldandknew said:

I doubt very much if the people of Iraq who have been killed tortured and maimed for expressing less dissent towards their leader than has been exhibited on this thread towards our leaders would agree with you that Saddam is not a threat.

And to that end, do you think he gives a tinkers dam what the rest of the world says or thinks?

Saddam is in the unenviable position of not having one, not one person in his country disagree with him, on anything.

That is a breeding ground for meglomania.

Vietnamnurse - I love the village idiot sign!

cobalt, it is not just the US whose the agressor here ... <sigh> there's also my own country that's supporting the attack on Iraq, despite opposition from 75% of the population. As one parliamentarian put it yesterday:

"For the first time in the history of this country, Australia has joined as an aggressor in war - not because of any decision it has been prepared to take on its own or through the Security Council but because the United States asked it to."

A very sad day, indeed.

Glad to hear you liked what I recommended, vietnamnurse! I think it is a site most instructive for other public posting forums. Just think, civil discourse between vehemently opposing but articulate 'sides'! And no one suggesting that another poster is out of touch with reality, LOL!

Au and sumac have an interesting commonality in their responses. Just because things ARE going in this direction, if we disagree with it, we should not do all we can to deter wrong being done? This is close to the thinking that 'majority rules'. Or the thinking that "our government knows best". Or do you like this one: can't change it so quit worrying about it. I am thinking that it is incredible for me to see that we had no real questioning and real 'vote' on military authorization and such. Who are these fools as elected officials? None or few voted for opposition to the demands of the administration at any turn. Ditch them all! I have a long memory and I vote!

My country right or wrong, eh? Msolga, I can especially feel empathy for those whose country's administration caved to the playground bully or fell for bribery. High crimes and misdemeanors, indeed!

I think one of the reasons George Bush calls it a war -- is because that's one of the words he can spell.

I forgot to add something many will find of interest (if they haven't heard of this already) -

http://www.msnbc.com has a poll up with about 12 questions rating your opinion as to the realities of outcomes in a War on Iraq. One can't see the current 'statistics' until voting. And the site is sometimes jammed so long one can't get in to vote. I'd have to think that I am representing far more than 2% or so polled who are in opposition to this invasion. Perhaps a huge internal quest to fill the poll favorable to "the Right" (and I DO mean that facetiously....)

Hope folks remember that volunteers for polls that initiate their own response are not very statistically-accurate. Shall we all make our decisions based on "focus-groups" as Bush called the protestors?

cobalt



Yes, you should do something about it, vote the bums out. What do you think demonstrating once hostilities do other than to give aid and comfort to our enemies and demoralize our troops. Bush, who is the object of the demonstrations merely thumbs his nose at the demonstrators. Sorry, IMO I see it as an exercise in futility, designed to make the dissenters feel good.

au - one of the results of so many very large public protest marches throughout the world has been to make a lot of the leaders of those countries stop and think. Aznar has told Spain that no troops or supplies will be sent to Iraq. Very large and many protests in Spain, and over 80% of the populace against this have probably played a part, and that may be one of the reasons Bush was so angry after the brief meeting in the Azores.

The fact that Bush thumbs his nose at things like this does not make them wrong, or even ineffectual in the longer run.

And voting the bums out is really not such a simple affair. I think a lot of people are beginning to realize that politics is, among many other interesting things, a complicated process.

And the fact that the arctic drilling bill was defeated in the Senate is a very slim ray of brightness. Among those who voted against it were Norm Coleman, John McCain, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Lincoln Chaffee. Ted Stevens was quoted as saying that those who had voted against the bill had also voted against him, and he would not forget it. This is not an aside - this is part of the whole picture.

We dare call it a war, cobalt, because we have a skilled combine - both as farm machine and group - running roughshod now. They have cast aside any pretense of being for people and country (although God comes into it a lot), and are going their own way. And we did not vote Bush in. It's becoming an old refrain now, but it's still true. But we still got him, and all he stands for for, and if restraint of dissent is urged, then how dare we call this democracy?

For everyone person that takes the time and trouble to protest the war I guantee that there are ten to twenty who agree but do not feel the need to demonstrate. Just this afternoon, in Dallas three women in store were discussing how stupid Bush was and how much they did not want this war.

Cobalt and au

I refuse, as a matter of principle, to in any way lessen my criticism whether war has begun or not. The prosecution of this war is entirely out of our hands, and nothing said here will effect that in any way whatsoever.

What remains available to us is the ability to think for ourselves, and to speak our thoughts. Thoughtful, engaged and valuable citizenship is not defined by adherence to authority, but rather by the resistance against it when that authority acts according to notions and values with which we disagree.

The speech tonight included this twisted statement..."crucial support from 35 allies." Guinea? Canada? It is a falsehood. And the reason it came out of his mouth was simply to suggest that the action was something other than unilateral, that it was supported by some nameless, invisible majority. It's a lie.

That is sorta like the kindergarten teacher saying she has the support of the whole class, I suppose.

Good heavens, Blatham, you watched him? He looked preserved.

The paper listed the "coalition" - apparently 15 declined to be identified, according to Powell. Among those listed were Poland, the only country supplying troops (200), Albania, Bulgaria, and more. Also, most of the crucial aid seems to consist of allowing air space. There was a lot of hoo-hah about Italy, but I no longer see them listed so prominently. Significantly absent were Canada, Mexico, a toltal ignoring of Central and South America, a lot of Africa and Asia. Lies are what this administration is built on.

"That is sorta like the kindergarten teacher saying she has the support of the whole class, I suppose."
one kid erasing the black board, another empting the trash and the others watching quietly from their desks, meanwhile the rest of the school is split between the lunch room and recess.

mama

I was called into the tv room by my daughter. I listened to three sentences, the last being the one I mentioned, at which point I had to leave. And yes, the hallmarks of this adminstration are deceit and hubris.

Ridge says terrorist attacks on America is now a near certainty. Well, duh. Thus the attack on Iraq clearly achieves its lauded goal of defending Americans. Orwellian war is peace stuff. Anyone want to make a wager that Bush has never cracked a book by Orwell?

blatham
Criticize and disagree all you want I know I do. However, while we are at war or what ever you choose to call it. IMO the demonstrations should be put on hold. There I've said it again.

blatham
Criticize and disagree all you want I know I do. However, while we are at war or what ever you choose to call it. IMO the demonstrations should be put on hold. There I've said it again.

au

Boy, you did say it again. And yes, we disagree on this matter.

If I may be bold here: it's a euphemism for asserting political power over an area that mysteriously has a lot of oil wells (and we have a VP who mysteriously has a lot of interest and stock in the company that will pipeline some of this oil).
As some one wiser in the ways of money said to me recently " If our economy is dependant on oil, and we need the oil, we might as well take a scumbag's oil"
I would grant credibility to our government for killing Saddam and liberating the Iraquis, Saddam should die; but I think as a democratic public we are entitled to full disclosure; and I want to see an open check book for the development and manufacturing of electric cars so we don't need the oil and the rebuilding of our own ghettos.

It's an invasive attack of self defense. A "pre-emptive strike"
It's a thumb of the nose at our economy, and the cooperation of a cohesive coalition should have been secured first; these other countries should help foo the bill. Does "depression' ring any chimes?
It's not a war unless congress declares it so (at least where I went to school)
That's my 2 cents

Adventurism is a good a name as any
This is just a bigger scaled version of invading a banana republic at the request of United Fruit.


Buzzcook

Buzzcook

Great line!