Very astute commentary; you have the "actors" profiles down pat, the agendas of the "directors" exposed; the problem to me is where do we go now; how do we clear up the "mother of all messes"?
How can you build a world government able to meet the needs of all nations, without imposing the "image" of the richest and strongest (and most delussional) onto the others like a razor ribbon, rubber stamp!
Tartarin
Yes, re 'paranoid'. Thomas Szazs makes the point that the very worst thing one might tell an institutional psychiatrist is that one is sane. These words can trap us.
BoGoWo
Your wish to understand how we might go about such a design is a wish of mine too. But there are lots of good people trying to get their noggins around the question. It is certainly going to be complex. But I truly don't understand why we might think it impossibly difficult. People co-operate and compromise all the time. Unless, of course, someone who can dominate, and who wants to, is in the mix.
It's all about real estate; but in this case it's
Agendas, agendas, agendas!
In real estate, it is said that the three most important things are "Location, Location, and Location". The US has placed Herself firmly in the Mideast Location. While some initial excitement is sure to ensue, I imagine the neighborhood will settle down significantly in relatively short order. The neighbors got a real good look at the US's toys while She was moving in, and likely are deeply impressed. A very large part of the agendas of The Arab World will center on not giving the US cause to again press its military agenda.
War toys are for middle aged men who need to grow up and settle their disputes without resorting to playground muscle. The biggest bully falls the hardest.
Good point, dyslexia. While we have words of good intention, we have a somewhat different track record. At the very least, scepticism is strongly indicated. Who knows, though ... maybe this time we mean it
Blatham -- Haven't thought about Szasz since the '70's when I was a fan of his. Something happened to him, didn't it -- professionally, I mean? Looking for evidence of that, I googled him and came up with the following Szaszism:
"When a man says that he is Jesus or Napoleon, or that the Martians are after him, or claims something else that seems outrageous to common sense, he is labeled psychotic and locked up in a madhouse. Freedom of speech is only for normal people."
Which reminded me that in addition to the problem area of complexity one needs to add irony.
There is some irony in that a common complaint levelled against The Right has been its support of, and failure to act against, Third World Right-Wing Demagogues and its tendency toward Fundamentalism' yet The Right nows comes under fire for repudiating and taking action against examples of both.
Quote:a common complaint levelled against The Right has been its support of, and failure to act against, Third World Right-Wing Demagogues and its tendency toward Fundamentalism'
When? Where?
timber, in fairness I must say that I will have enormous difficulty mustering sympathy in the face of any proof you provide of the above contention.
V-e-r-y s-e-l-e-c-t-i-v-e-l-y, Timber! And only if you believe this was about demagogues and not about Arabs and oil. The interesting thing about oil is that it funds terrorism -- on both sides of the equation.
Thanks, williamhenry3 ... good point there. If timber is The Eagle, and not specifically ranting about MODERATION stuff, its just plain old timber, who has lots of opinions ... any of which are open to challenge. If anybody wants to disagree or take issue with plain old, bull-headed, opinionated timber, go right ahead. Timber often deserves little flack, and is only incidentally Moderator, too. "Course, it ain't wise to upset MODERATOR
Seriously, though ... I don't want my staff status to have any influence on anyone's perception of timber's posts. If anyone thinks I do "Throw my weight around", fer chrissakes, lemme know.
And how many times would we have to do that?
Jeez Louise! Go away to be part of an important peace rally for the day and come back to find everyone discoursing right along and took me a good half hour to read straight through these thoughtful posts! Well done!
BTW, I put myself on the clipboard list to speak, so my turn came just one before the end of the 'speakers'. My fifteen minutes of fame I managed to get down to a pithy and pertinent 2 minutes! Hurrah, huzzah! Anyhows, nothing like participating in a good old fashioned peace rally to pack up your troubles in an old kit bat - er - summat like dat, lol!
We made the front page with a BIG article this morning and a large fullcolor photo and a favorable large headline "Protesters Rally for Education" and - get this! - there were at least five speakers ACCURATELY quoted! This my friends is "a day to remember" in Illinois. I live in a place that has approximately 300 registered Democrats and the metro population is about 130,000 with two universities. There is even a country Green Party, gadzooks! What is the world coming to? This hometown of sorts (went to college here) has actually found a willingness to allow dissention and peaceful gathering. A far far cry from the days 30+ (ahem) years ago when I first became politicized on this very campus. And I doubt that the local politza have "knee-knockers" as they do in Oakland, CA. AND there must be a cold place in the Netherworld right now, for the local paper has a favorable article about "us" patriots???? What is the world coming to!
timber
Seriously...do you think this action had, as its fundamental goal, the liberation of a downtrodden, oppressed and tortured people?
If I perceived that as the actual goal, I would certainly be more supportive (though, in this case, I'd still be skeptical of the means used to bring it about).
If you are to answer that this is a consequence of the action (of course, I think you'd have to say 'might be a consequence' and hope I didn't split a lot of hairs on Afghanistan) would not alone justify it, for if the actual goal is something other, then a myriad of further consequences are sure to flow from whatever these boys are really up to.
just out of interest, who voted that the attack was an 'act of self defense'?
Nah, bernie, I look at Iraq, and Afghanistan, as episodes in The War on Terrorism. I know the broader view is not a popular view here on A2K at least, but its how I perceive the situation. I think The Iraq Action, The Afghanistan Action, The Syria Action, and a bunch of Other Actions, past, ongoing, and yet to come, all are episodes in The War On Terrorism. My personal take is that to view any of them as "Stand Alone" events is disingenuous. I think that The Clinton Era saw great harm done by contradictory and irresolute US Policy in the Geopolitical Arena, and I feel that many oportunities missed then, unrecognized then, would have, had they been recognized and siezed, obviated the present contretemps. The liberation of downtrodden Iraqis, while laudable, is but a byproduct. I really think "The Actual Goal" is a more peaceful, prosperous World, and I believe the effort to achieve that will be long, arduous, and ultimately successful.
If you were in charge, I could maybe see this happening timber. With the current group, I think there is a lot of blood thirsty, money grubbing idoltry there that I can't trust. Sorry - Besides, there just isn't enough money - At the rate we're going, we will be a third rate dictatorship in a few more years!
