Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 02:02 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Christians believe that the Holy Spirit is God, the third person in the Holy Trinity.

It is through the Holy Spirit's eyes that God watches over mankind. The eyes of the Lord and the Holy Spirit are one.

2 Chronicles 16:9. For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 02:19 pm
@Patches,
Quote:
A spirit can can it's spiritual form many times. Jesus did not change when He was incarnated as a human. He was still the Son of God.


These leads to more questions:
1. Clearly human form is added when Jesus PBUH came to this world. If God was perfect then there is no need for addition or subtraction from a perfection.
2. Lets focus on the word SON of God. You said God is all one, the father, the son and holy spirit. God is also eternal. Who came first son or father and how they can be eternal?
3. Now lets see how you justify the concept of incarnated. My point one above pretty much refutes this concept. But lets assume for a while that God did incarnate. By definition, God is infinite. You can't box God in human body, otherwise He is not infinite. You can't make God dependent on his creation like Jesus PBUH did on his mother, on the food and other things which are creation of God. God can't be seen and yet many saw Jesus PBUH. God knows all, yet Jesus PBUH had no knowledge of the hour. God is all powerful and does not need anyone's help, yet Jesus PBUH prayed to God to remove the cup from him.
Quote:
Quote:
You did not answer if Paul believed in trinity or not? Just simple yes or no. I would think yes but would like to know your opinion.

I believe he did.


If Paul had really believed in there being three persons in the Godhead,
then he would have mentioned all three members in his letters to the churches – he never did. Paul mentioned the Father and Jesus in every introduction of every letter he wrote (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2; Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 1:2; Philippians 1:2; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1; 2 Thessalonians 1:2; 1 Timothy 1:2; 2 Timothy 1:2; Hebrews 1:1-2), but he never mentioned the Holy Spirit. If Paul were a Trinitarian, then such an omission is astounding. Clearly, Paul did not believe in a Triune God. Something for you to think and research.

Another question:
What about the Gospel of John, does it represent a proof text for the Trinity?
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2019 08:31 am
Genesis 2:7. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

The term “Spirit” translates the Hebrew word ruah which in it’s primary sense, means breath, air, wind.

God gave man life through His Holy Spirit.

Do you believe that the archangel Sir Gabriel gave us life? According to Christian scripture, it was the Holy Spirit that brings us life on a daily basic.
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2019 09:02 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
1. Clearly human form is added when Jesus PBUH came to this world. If God was perfect then there is no need for addition or subtraction from a perfection.


The Son of God came to save the believer.

Quote:
2. Lets focus on the word SON of God. You said God is all one, the father, the son and holy spirit. God is also eternal. Who came first son or father and how they can be eternal?


The Trinity is the Alpha & Omega.

KJV 1 Corinthians 2:14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2019 12:54 pm
@Patches,
Quote:
Quote:
1. Clearly human form is added when Jesus PBUH came to this world. If God was perfect then there is no need for addition or subtraction from a perfection.


The Son of God came to save the believer.


That makes an imperfect God. Either a form before human being is better or after. Second I think by doing so there is more confusion in the world than ever before.

Quote:
The Trinity is the Alpha & Omega.

KJV 1 Corinthians 2:14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


That did not answer the question. For someone to be son of someone means father came first and then the son. Both can't be eternal. The reference you gave, does not talk about trinity at all, you just interpreted it that way.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Jul, 2019 12:57 pm
@Patches,
You did not address my question about Paul.

Quote:
If Paul had really believed in there being three persons in the Godhead,
then he would have mentioned all three members in his letters to the churches – he never did. Paul mentioned the Father and Jesus in every introduction of every letter he wrote (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2; Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 1:2; Philippians 1:2; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1; 2 Thessalonians 1:2; 1 Timothy 1:2; 2 Timothy 1:2; Hebrews 1:1-2), but he never mentioned the Holy Spirit. If Paul were a Trinitarian, then such an omission is astounding. Clearly, Paul did not believe in a Triune God. Something for you to think and research.


Paul did not believe in Trinity, the one apparently knew Christianity more than anyone. Paul never believed in Holy Spirit and what you are referring to is your misunderstanding.

Angels can blow soul into human being and can take soul out of human beings at the order of One true God.
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Jul, 2019 11:58 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
1. Clearly human form is added when Jesus PBUH came to this world. If God was perfect then there is no need for addition or subtraction from a perfection.


Jesus was perfect in His human form. He had all His powers.

Quote:
2. Lets focus on the word SON of God. You said God is all one, the father, the son and holy spirit. God is also eternal. Who came first son or father and how they can be eternal?


Catholics believe that both has always been.

Quote:
3. Now lets see how you justify the concept of incarnated. My point one above pretty much refutes this concept. But lets assume for a while that God did incarnate. By definition, God is infinite. You can't box God in human body, otherwise He is not infinite. You can't make God dependent on his creation like Jesus PBUH did on his mother, on the food and other things which are creation of God. God can't be seen and yet many saw Jesus PBUH. God knows all, yet Jesus PBUH had no knowledge of the hour. God is all powerful and does not need anyone's help, yet Jesus PBUH prayed to God to remove the cup from him.


Jesus was conceive at conception, by the Holy Spirit (not Gabriel).God lowered Himself by becoming one of us to save us.

The Lord’s descent into hell

“What is happening? Today there is a great silence over the earth, a great silence, and stillness, a great silence because the King sleeps; the earth was in terror and was still, because God slept in the flesh and raised up those who were sleeping from the ages. God has died in the flesh, and the underworld has trembled.

Truly he goes to seek out our first parent like a lost sheep; he wishes to visit those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death. He goes to free the prisoner Adam and his fellow-prisoner Eve from their pains, he who is God, and Adam’s son.

The Lord goes in to them holding his victorious weapon, his cross. When Adam, the first created man, sees him, he strikes his breast in terror and calls out to all: ‘My Lord be with you all.’ And Christ in reply says to Adam: ‘And with your spirit.’ And grasping his hand he raises him up, saying: ‘Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.

‘I am your God, who for your sake became your son, who for you and your descendants now speak and command with authority those in prison: Come forth, and those in darkness: Have light, and those who sleep: Rise.

‘I command you: Awake, sleeper, I have not made you to be held a prisoner in the underworld. Arise from the dead; I am the life of the dead. Arise, O man, work of my hands, arise, you who were fashioned in my image. Rise, let us go hence; for you in me and I in you, together we are one undivided person.

‘For you, I your God became your son; for you, I the Master took on your form; that of slave; for you, I who am above the heavens came on earth and under the earth; for you, man, I became as a man without help, free among the dead; for you, who left a garden, I was handed over to Jews from a garden and crucified in a garden.

‘Look at the spittle on my face, which I received because of you, in order to restore you to that first divine inbreathing at creation. See the blows on my cheeks, which I accepted in order to refashion your distorted form to my own image.

‘See the scourging of my back, which I accepted in order to disperse the load of your sins which was laid upon your back. See my hands nailed to the tree for a good purpose, for you, who stretched out your hand to the tree for an evil one.

`I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side, for you, who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side healed the pain of your side; my sleep will release you from your sleep in Hades; my sword has checked the sword which was turned against you.

‘But arise, let us go hence. The enemy brought you out of the land of paradise; I will reinstate you, no longer in paradise, but on the throne of heaven. I denied you the tree of life, which was a figure, but now I myself am united to you, I who am life. I posted the cherubim to guard you as they would slaves; now I make the cherubim worship you as they would God.

“The cherubim throne has been prepared, the bearers are ready and waiting, the bridal chamber is in order, the food is provided, the everlasting houses and rooms are in readiness; the treasures of good things have been opened; the kingdom of heaven has been prepared before the ages.”

Source: Ancient Homily for Holy Saturday: PG 43, 440A, 452C: LH, Holy Saturday, OR.

Source approved by the Vatican of the Roman Catholic Church.

How do we know what Paul believe when we are uncertain who wrote the books of the New Testament. It is believe that Paul wrote most of it.
0 Replies
 
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2019 09:55 am
@HabibUrrehman,
I hope that I haven't scared you from the truth.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Aug, 2019 05:58 pm
I guess none of you guys thinks Jesus is who Jesus himself (or John or Peter) said he was.

If any of you guy are right, Jesus was lying.
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2019 11:40 am
@Leadfoot,
As far as Jesus being the Son of God and the only Savior, I would be right and Jesus would not be lying.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2019 11:53 am
@Patches,
So you are saying the Son of God is God, if I follow your thoughts correctly.
I would not have a problem if that were the case but then that conflicts with the Son of God and God knowing two different sets of facts. (As in the example of knowing the day of the Son's return) and other scriptures. How do you resolve it?
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2019 01:22 pm
@Leadfoot,
I have witnessed the Holy Trinity.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2019 08:55 pm
@Patches,
I would not question anyone’s personal spiritual experiences because my own would sound implausible (or delusional) as well.
But I try to cross reference everything, experiences, reason, the Bible, the spirit, etc. I never feel comfortable until there are no contradictions.

My own analogy for the Holy Spirit is something like the communication network that links all who have a 'spiritual url address' to God.
0 Replies
 
laughoutlood
 
  0  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2019 09:09 pm
@Patches,
Quote:
I have witnessed the Holy Trinity.


Heavens, that's 3-1 up on Leadfoot.



Don't know much about the trinity
Or immaculate virginity
Can't say much about the bible crook,
I would rather read a science book
But I do know dad and son is two
And I know that if you love woo woo
What a wonderful world to have three

La la, la la lala land
Mystery
Psychiatry
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Aug, 2019 11:49 pm
@laughoutlood,
Quote:
Heavens, that's 3-1 up on Leadfoot.

If you actually got what I once said, I got two out of three.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 07:13 am
@hawkeye10,
I have 2 posts left - This is the penultimate (One left).
I thought it would be with DL or Habib - Not so, it seems...

You are someone whose post I will recall being in synchronicity with.

Well Done, Sir!
Hope you make the 'cut'.

l8r:)
0 Replies
 
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 09:01 am
Let's all make the cut through our faith of a most loving Savior (named Jesus). May none of us perish by believing falsely...that other than the Holy Trinity.
0 Replies
 
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 Aug, 2019 09:22 am
That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Aug, 2019 04:36 pm
@Patches,
In the Trinity scenario, did it never bother you that God resurrecting himself would be little more than a party trick? And that it guts any real meaning from the words “For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son ...”?
Patches
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Aug, 2019 10:08 am
@Leadfoot,
Is it so hard to believe that Father God's Son Jesus is a God as well?. After all, you are a human from a human father.
 

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