Patches
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jul, 2019 11:10 am
@HabibUrrehman,
There are many stories of Jesus converting Muslims to Christianity. Why is this so?

HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jul, 2019 12:11 pm
@mark noble,
If you are talking from Muslim's point of view then Jesus PBUH is a prophet and I should say PBUH.

When we are talking from non-Muslim's point of view then we are debating about who God is. PBUH does not go with God because peace comes from God.

Anyways to keep it simple, I guess I should say PBUH with the name of Jesus because that what I believe regardless of what Christian believe or not. I will try to be more careful in future in doing so.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jul, 2019 12:20 pm
@Patches,
I forgot to confirm one more fundamental doctrine of the Trinity which is the incarnation of God. To my understanding, this teaches that the second person of the Trinity, the Son, took on human flesh in the bodily form of Jesus. Thus, when Mary gave birth to Jesus, God entered into the creation. Jesus is said to be the God-man, who has two natures – one divine, one human. Jesus is said to be both fully God and fully man. As a result of the incarnation, humanity has been permanently incorporated into the Godhead; the Son will forever have an inseparable divine and human nature. Jesus’s humanity is not something that can be discarded or dissolved back into the Godhead. Even after his crucifixion, resurrection and ascension back to the Father, Jesus will forever exist in heaven as a glorified man, albeit God at the same time. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong anywhere in my understanding of above doctrine.

For Muslim's point of view I should add PBUH after the name of Jesus but I did not added to keep the flow.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 17 Jul, 2019 12:25 pm
@Patches,
There are some stories but not as many as Christians becoming Muslims. Majority of the atheists are also from Christian background because Christian doctrines have no logical reasoning behind as we will see soon.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 05:51 am
@HabibUrrehman,
I cease posting at 5,000 posts (Currently 4,997+ this)
= 4,998.

A2k is Dead! I would be well pleased if you would present yourself, as an ambassador to Islam, On a greater scale.
You are a person I will never forget.

Don't cast your pearls amongst swine (Waste words on the deaf).

See you in the Next Life.
Mark...
hawkeye10
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 05:57 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

I cease posting at 5,000 posts (Currently 4,997+ this)
= 4,998.

A2k is Dead! I would be well pleased if you would present yourself, as an ambassador to Islam, On a greater scale.
You are a person I will never forget.

Don't cast your pearls amongst swine (Waste words on the deaf).

See you in the Next Life.
Mark...


Not dead just yet...almost dead...like the rest of the West....Because of the Hubris and ignorance of the elite and how they corrupted education and journalism and politics and science and more.....they who tend to be too ignorant to have a clue of how ignorant they are.

BIG PAIN will teach when nothing else can get through, as it always does.

96% of these moronic fucks have no clue what is coming!
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 09:09 am
@mark noble,
Darkness comes. In the middle of it, the future looks blank. The temptation to quit is huge. Don't. You may think that there is no way forward. Don't loose hope, stars do come out when it gets dark. With God, nothing is impossible. He has more ropes and ladders and tunnels out of pits than you can conceive. Wait. Pray without ceasing. Hope. May be you are the initial spark which is needed to end this darkness.
As Mahatma Gandhi said:

Quote:
The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.


Remember that we are doing this to find the truth for ourselves and share that with our brothers and sisters here who need sincere people like you.
0 Replies
 
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 10:11 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Jesus is 100% human. And 100% God. He is part of the godhead known as the Holy Trinity. I am sorry that you can not see this.

Is it true that most Muslims believe that the Holy Spirit is the archangel Sir Gabriel? God is omnipotent and omnipresent through His Holy Spirit. How is He all this through an angel who is much less than He?

Romans 8:16. The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 10:25 am
@Patches,
Thanks for confirmation. I have few more questions before we head towards a good and respectful debate.

When you think of God, what attributes come into your mind? Is the God self-sufficient, all knowing, all powerful, all good, eternal, never changes its nature, just and merciful?

What has been the role of prophets? What moral values you would think a prophet should have to convey the message of God as is and set an example for his followers to follow?

Do you believe in original sin?

Will there be hell and paradise in life Hereafter?

I am asking these questions so that I can know your point of view before we head towards asking fundamental questions. I also want to mention that I have great respect for people of Book (Christians and Jews), we may disagree but we have more in common than non Abrahamic religions and atheists belief system. Look forward to your answers.
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 10:46 am
@HabibUrrehman,
God goes unchanging. He is omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient.

Jesus is more than a prophet.

I have no comment about original sin. Although, I do believe in it

I have seen parts of both the condition of heaven and hell. They both exist.

My testimony: True Story of Christ & Salvation
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 10:54 am
@Patches,
Thanks you once again. and do you believe that Bible is 100% word of God with no contradiction?
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 11:05 am
@HabibUrrehman,
I have substantial experience with the spirit world and witnessed many truths in the Holy Bible. I am aware that through translations, it may have changed somewhat. And any seemingly contradiction could be do to misinterpretation.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 11:30 am
@Patches,
Fair enough. I just wanted to see what you believe in.

Lets kick this off my friend. So before Jesus PBUH came to this world in the form of human being, was he PBUH in heaven in 100% God form or human form? When Jesus PBUH came to this world, was he PBUH 100% human or 100% God?
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 11:55 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Jesus came into this world both 100% human and 100% God. He never lost His Divinity.

Do you or do other Muslims believe that the archangel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit?
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 12:15 pm
@Patches,
Quote:
Jesus came into this world both 100% human and 100% God. He never lost His Divinity.


Was Jesus PBUH 100% human being and 100% God before coming to this world?
And is he PBUH still 100% God and 100% human being?

Quote:
Do you or do other Muslims believe that the archangel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit?


Muslims believe that God is God with no birth nor possession. Jesus PBUH is a man and a prophet. The HS (Gabriel) is angel that serves God and supported prophets.

This brings another question in my mind. Did Paul believed in Doctrine of Trinity, especially did he believe in Holy Spirit the way Christians believe it today?
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 12:32 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
Was Jesus PBUH 100% human being and 100% God before coming to this world?


He was 100% God.

Quote:
And is he PBUH still 100% God and 100% human being?


Yes

Quote:
This brings another question in my mind. Did Paul believed in Doctrine of Trinity, especially did he believe in Holy Spirit the way Christians believe it today?


As many eyes as there are is as many ways that people see the Holy Spirit today.
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 12:43 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
The HS (Gabriel) is angel that serves God and supported prophets.


The Holy Spirit makes intercession between us and God.

Romans 8:26. Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groaning’s which cannot be uttered.

The Holy Spirit is not an angel. He is the third God in the Holy Trinity who is all knowing, all seeing and all hearing.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 01:15 pm
@Patches,
So Jesus PBUH was 100% God when he did not come to this world and he was 100% God and 100% human being when he came to this world. This implies God has changed his nature? By definition God does not change His nature?
This also means God was not perfect either when Jesus PBUH was 100% or when Jesus PBUH was both God and human at the same time. Which form of God is superior?

You did not answer if Paul believed in trinity or not? Just simple yes or no. I would think yes but would like to know your opinion.
HabibUrrehman
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 01:18 pm
@Patches,
I understand the difference between Christian and Muslim beliefs. As I said for Muslim Gabriel is the angel who is responsible to convey the message of God to Prophets. In Quran he is also some time called as Holy Spirit. For Muslims Holy Spirit and Angel Gabriel are same. For Christians Holy Spirit and angel Gabriel are two different beings.

I got it and we will explore more difference and the reasons for these difference when time comes.
Patches
 
  0  
Reply Thu 18 Jul, 2019 01:47 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
So Jesus PBUH was 100% God when he did not come to this world and he was 100% God and 100% human being when he came to this world. This implies God has changed his nature? By definition God does not change His nature?


A spirit can can it's spiritual form many times. Jesus did not change when He was incarnated as a human. He was still the Son of God.

Quote:
You did not answer if Paul believed in trinity or not? Just simple yes or no. I would think yes but would like to know your opinion.


I believe he did.
 

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