DON'T SUPPORT THE WAR - AT LEAST SUPPORT THE TROOPS

Roger, true

But why did they go all the way to Berlin?
And do you think its concidence the US attack began after the German troops were almost defeated in the East? The SU has done most of the work in the second WW! That is a fact

frolic
Try telling that to the thousands of dead, maimed and wounded American servicemen in both the Atlantic and Pacific areas of combat. It is amazing how knowledgeable those who know very little are.

20 million Russians! How many Americans?

Very true, frolic. The Soviet Union had the most casualties, and may well have been the decisive factor. Again, the US was at war with Germany because Germany declared war on the US, and before our entry, the war was surely not as widely supported in America as we like to believe it was.

It's hard to believe in hindsight, but there were several events which could have either changed the outcome, or delayed it greatly. Hitler's decision to attack Russia was one of the most obvious.

Selective memories are the best memories.

Roger
Before the attack on Pearl Harbor the sentiment in the US was that we stay out of European wars. Remember, WW1 was only about 20 years past. Isolationism was still a prevailing attitude. And above all it was a European affair and a wide ocean away.
As for who had the most casualties. What would one expect the war was fought in Europe?
One thing is clear without the aid given by the US and it's entry into the war the national language of Europe would have been German.

Also, I believe the numbers from Stalin's purges of the Soviet officer Corps got included as war casualties.

I think the curious thing about this invasion is that it comes from an isolationist regime in this country -- a nation which insists on standing apart from the international community to attain its own ends. For its support, it draws in part on a isolationist, anti-UN and ironically anti-"new world order" group. The latter group (according to what I hear on "loco" radio) is shifting away from Bush, separating isolationism from isolationism in the service of imperialism.

World War II (1940-1945)
Total servicemembers 16,112,566
Battle deaths 291,557
Other deaths in service (nontheater) 113,842
Nonmortal woundings 671,846

A nice sum-up from the administrators of democraticunderground.com:

We oppose this war.

We find it difficult to believe George W. Bush's claim that he has attacked Iraq reluctantly.

This administration has spent months attempting to convince the American people that Saddam Hussein is in some way responsible for 9/11. It has spent weeks in front of the U.N. arguing for war, going so far as to offer false information at key presentations. It has consistently ignored the reports of Hans Blix and the U.N. weapons inspectors. In the hurry to conquer Iraq, this administration has vilified nations and people who would urge caution.

We are told that we must invade Iraq to prevent further terrorist attacks, when top intelligence officials agree that an invasion will likely increase

The thing that I don't understand is why we have to debate WWII to get to Iraq. WWII was fought by even people like myself (not me specifically), while people like me do not support the war on Iraq at all. Why do the lessons of that war have to be applied to this one though it is different in nature and origin?

Edgar,

While the weapons and doctrines change from time to time, war remains remarkably the same as it was when we cast stones at one another. Diplomacy without strength has always failed. One can not easily separate politics and war, for they are of the same coin.

The three world wars of the 20th century still engage our emotions, and provide the material for our imperfect grasp of current conditions. Many of us here know something of war, and what we know we learned at the Chosen Reservoir, or in the steaming jungles of Southeast Asia. Our fathers and uncles fought a war where the values seemed so much clearer than those we've been called upon to fight. History is being made again -- right now. Personally, I firmly believe that the NCA understands the current conditions far better than most of us. I am heartened by the professionalism that's been demonstrated so far.

Edgar

Yesterday I went to a rally in Melbourne (Oz) to protest the start of the war. One of the speakers there was Alex Tikchener, from Vietnam Veterans Against the War. This is part of what he said:

"Two thousand young Australians have been sent to defend Australian interests on the other side of the world in Iraq. No doubt some will return. Some will be in body bags. Some will return as dysfunctional members of society."

When will we ever learn?

The Iraq war is being fought for all the wrong reasons. At least with Hitler we had a powerful monster that appeared to be devouring all the world. I don't need combat experience to see the difference.

Eschew combat experience, Edgar. I'm beginning to think that to be in the military is to support war.

Tarterin
You may be right. I was on the brink of reinlisting so I could volunteer to be sent to Vietnam. A little civilian freedom gave me the chance to learn what a mistake the war was, and I became a protestor instead.

Tartarin
Another outrages and ridiculous statement.

I LOVE outragesing you, Au!

Ash - so good and comforting to think that humans haven't progressed one social iota since the days of casting stones.

I'll second that Littlek.