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Sun 16 Mar, 2003 09:03 am
Here is the quandry of the anti-Iraq war faction: Don't want the troops to fight an immoral war; they're going in anyway. You don't want to lose a single life on either side. If you protest the immorality of it you are accused of not supporting our young people who are in harm's way. So then many supporters of the war call us traitors. Well, I repeat: I don't want to lose a single life on either side. I want them to stand down our forces in that conflict now. That's the best I can do.
edgar:
Take a look at Ted Rall's most recent column, which seems to make it all right not to support the troops (a concept I don't happen to support):
We find ourselves facing the paradox of the "good German" of the '30s. We're ruled by an evil, non-elected warlord who ignores both domestic opposition and international condemnation. We don't want the soldiers fighting his unjustified wars of expansion to win--but we don't want them to lose either.
Rest here.
Whether we should or should not attack Iraq is no longer the question once the attack begins. It should be past tense. From that point on IMO it should be all out war and doing whatever it takes to win. We owe our troops nothing less.
The sticky part is speaking out against the immorality of putting the troops there in the first place while not wishing them harm.
Diddie
Re your post.
The grunts who have to fight this war are not like the Nazi commanders who later tried to save their skins by saying they were just following orders.
I despise with every ounce of strength in my body what George Bush and his miscreant handlers are doing to our country and this world -- but the moment the first shots are fired, my sentiments will certainly be with the men and women who are the grunts -- the people who have to actually fight the wars these idiots start.
Starting with that first shot I will also be hoping that the theists with whom I have so many battles are right -- that there is a Hell. And I hope that is where Saddam Hussein ends up.
BTW -- my sympathies and hopes for survival go out to grunts on both sides of the lines.
If that bothers anybody -- tough!
Well, the only lives I want to be wasted are lives of Saddam and his sons. I would feel happy if the Iraqi armed forces surrender 3 minutes after the military operation starts.
The Levellers: Another mans Cause
Gunshots shatter the peace of night
It's just another fire fight
For the people of this little town
But for the dying soldier
He's feeling ten years older
And he's lying face down on the ground
All the words that are in his head
Are all the words his mother said
As she would put him to bed back home
Your daddy died in the last war
Fighting for another man's cause
And your brother he was killed in the Falklands
Now your mother's lying home alone
Every day she sees his face
On the picture on the fireplace
With your brother as he was leaving school
Then a day came five years ago
You said, "Mother, I need to know"
And you spoke the words your brother spoke before
"I know the things my Daddy´s done
I've seen the medals that he´s won
And I know that this is what he would have wanted for me."
And now she wonders at it all
How many more are going to answer the call
To fight and die in another country's war
To die for a religion they have never believed in at all
To die in a place they never should have been at all
No, never been at all
If my son were in the military I would wish him returned without harm. How can I not share that wish with the other parents of both sides? At the same time I will speak out against the prosecution of the war as often as I have the opportunity.
I want them to stand down, too. I suspect I won't like them a whole lot if they don't, though I'll try to be loyal to them. (If they were draftees, my attitude would be quite different.)
Tartarin
Quote: I want them to stand down, too. I suspect I won't like them a whole lot if they don't, though I'll try to be loyal to them. (If they were draftees, my attitude would be quite different.)
You will try to be loyal to them
I won't like them a lot if they don't
Those are two of the most despicable statements I have seen on the a2k to date. You should be ashamed of yourself. In case you didn't realize those are our sons daughters and grandchildren.
This goes around The Web every Veteran's Day. I think it fits here.
Quote:WHAT IS A VET?
He is the cop on the beat who spent six months in Saudi Arabia sweating two
gallons a day making sure the armored personnel carriers didn't run out of
fuel.
He is the barroom loudmouth, dumber than five wooden planks, whose overgrown
frat-boy behavior is outweighed a hundred times in the cosmic scales by four
hours of exquisite bravery near the 38th parallel.
She (or he) is the nurse who fought against futility and went to sleep
sobbing every night for two solid years in Da Nang.
He is the POW who went away one person and came back another -- or didn't
come back AT ALL.
He is the Parris Island drill instructor who has never seen combat -- but
has saved countless lives by turning slouchy, no-account rednecks and gang
members into Marines, and teaching them to watch each other's backs.
He is the parade-riding Legionnaire who pins on his ribbons and medals with
a prosthetic hand.
He is the career quartermaster who watches the ribbons and medals pass him
by.
He is the three anonymous heroes in The Tomb Of The Unknowns, whose presence
at the Arlington National Cemetery must forever preserve the memory of all
anonymous heroes whose valor dies unrecognized with them on the battlefield
or in the ocean's sunless deep.
He is the old guy bagging groceries at the supermarket -- palsied now and
aggravatingly slow -- who helped liberate a Nazi death camp and who wishes
all day long that his wife were still alive to hold him when the nightmares
come.
He is an ordinary and yet an extraordinary human being -- a person who
offered some of his life's most vital years in the service of his country,
and who sacrificed his ambitions so others would not have to sacrifice
theirs.
He is a soldier and a savior and a sword against the darkness, and he is
nothing more than the finest, greatest testimony on behalf of the finest,
greatest nation ever known.
So remember, each time you see someone who has served our country, just lean
over and say Thank You. That's all most people need, and in most cases it
will mean more than any medals they could have been awarded or were awarded.
Two little words that mean a lot, "THANK YOU."
It's the soldier, not the reporter, Who gave us our freedom of the press.
It's the soldier, not the poet, Who gave us our freedom of speech.
It's the soldier, not the campus organizer, Who gave us our freedom to
demonstrate.
It's the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves others with respect for
the flag, And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protester
to burn the flag.
timber
Tartarin wrote:I want them to stand down, too. I suspect I won't like them a whole lot if they don't, though I'll try to be loyal to them. (If they were draftees, my attitude would be quite different.)
Thank you, Tartarin, for clearing up any possible misunderstandings.
Timber - that's weird.... it's all "He..." until this line:
She (or he) is the nurse who fought against futility and went to sleep sobbing every night for two solid years in Da Nang.
point taken, littlek ... I noticed it too, when first I saw the piece. I guess the implied "Manliness" of "Soldiering" is still a cultural artifact.
Apropos of nothing, I am fairly certain no one, nurse or otherwise, spent "two solid years in Da Nang". There's something about that that just doesn't ring true to my experience. None of the nitpicking detracts from the message, IMHO.
I wholeheartedly endorse the sentiment.
timber
I support all troops, on all sides, and pray that they get out of harm's way and get home safely, and in relatively one piece. For the Iraqis, let us hope that some of this clandestine communication has paid off and your leaders will lead you to safety. For the grunt out in the trench and away from the shot in the back by Iraqi Elite Guards, keep your head down and come out with the white flag when it is safe to do so.
For the Coalition of the Willing troops, let us hope that our supposed military might and technological superiorty will be true and swift, and that you will never have to fire at collateral damage in fear for your own survival, or for theirs, in confusion as to which side they are really on. And that all that extra time in training will pay off.
But beyond all else, there is nothing much left except for hope and prayer.
I wish these words will inspire the glorious GIs in their noble mission:
Quote:Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust!"
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
glorious GIs in their noble mission!?!?!
OMG
Someone needs medical assistance!!!
frolic wrote:Someone needs medical assistance!!!
LOL ... hey, steissd ... somebody's shouting for a medic! Check it it out, will ya?
timber :wink:
Timber
I like the general thrust of the statement also.
Many of us here, pro and con the war, are veterans. Most of us know better than to put a lion's share of blame on them. They do as they feel they must, and many don't pretend to know more about the conflicts than that they are there to serve. To condemn these souls is to condemn human nature. A fruitless endeavor.
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