blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:34 am
I'll add one other factor...it forwards the notion that these mid-east Muslim countries are greedy, corrupt, and simply impossible for an advanced and sophisticated culture, such as ours, to easily manage.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:38 am
Also from today's ny times...
Quote:

By TIM GOLDEN
Published: May 22, 2005
Despite autopsy findings of homicide and statements by soldiers that two prisoners died after being struck by guards at an American military detention center in Bagram, Afghanistan, Army investigators initially recommended closing the case without bringing any criminal charges, documents and interviews show.

Along the Chain of Command, Confusion and ContradictionWithin days after the two deaths in December 2002, military coroners determined that both had been caused by "blunt force trauma" to the legs. Soon after, soldiers and others at Bagram told the investigators that military guards had repeatedly struck both men in the thighs while they were shackled and that one had also been mistreated by military interrogators.

Nonetheless, agents of the Army's Criminal Investigation Command reported to their superiors that they could not clearly determine who was responsible for the detainees' injuries, military officials said. Military lawyers at Bagram took the same position, according to confidential documents from the investigation obtained by The New York Times.

"I could never see any criminal intent on the part of the M.P.'s to cause the detainee to die," one of the lawyers, Maj. Jeff A. Bovarnick, later told investigators, referring to one of the deaths. "We believed the M.P.'s story, that this was the most combative detainee ever."

Crushed legs, presumably a consequence of crippling for life, presumably even a permanent coma would not be 'criminal'.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 06:58 am
Oh, okay. I see.

I couldn't decide if the Newsweek Lied story was to divert us from the fact that Bush wasn't notified during a high red alert on DC, the UK Fixed Facts Memo getting more ink, more bombings and casualties in Iraq, or something else.

Whew! I'm glad it's just about the cover-up of further prisoner abuse and not a cover for the fact that we don't really have a brave and fearless leader truly concerned for our safety and well being.

Nowadays, Bear reads something to me, or I find and read something to him and we look at each other and say "So whats this a diversion from?" Then we look for more news to find out what is being buried.

Surely lots of people are catching on to this.

(Right?)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:27 am
From the three of us begins a movement. Fame, fortune, and heightened surveillance await.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:41 pm
Sure it was Newsweek that sullied our good name...

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/05/dod-web-site-jokes-of-christian.html


http://americablog.blogspot.com/newtest.jpg
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:42 pm
i haven't followed this discussion in its entirety, so if i reiterate something that's already been stated, i apologize. but here's additional background about the Newsweek story that started the thread, from the AP:

Quote:
In a note to readers last week, Newsweek Editor Mark Whitaker said the information came from "a knowledgeable U.S. government source," and before the magazine published the item, writers Michael Isikoff and John Barry sought comment from two Defense Department officials. One declined to respond, and the other challenged another part of the story but did not dispute the Quran allegation, Whitaker said.

seems like the thread could be retitled to something like defense department officials allow Newsweek to publish erroneous story, people died.

click here for the entire article.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 07:44 pm
"US invades Iraq-People Continue to Die"
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 08:10 pm
"Upon this rock I shall build my military-industrial complex"
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 May, 2005 08:27 pm
That's some Peter you got there jesus.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 01:56 am
Quote:
THE NATION

Newsweek Changes Rules on Sources
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 02:00 am
From an earlier report of the LATimes (big news today here):
Quote:
Senior Bush administration officials reacted with outrage to a Newsweek report that U.S. interrogators had desecrated the Koran at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention facility, and the magazine retracted the story last week. But allegations of disrespectful treatment of Islam's holy book are far from rare
Source
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 05:37 am
I wonder why Newsweek is back-pedalling so hard. The story stands up. They must be under huge pressure (from advertisers? Government?)

I also wonder where all those copies of the Koran came from, that the guards and interrogators used. I don't imagine the prisoners could bring much with them.

Were they brought in specifically for the purpose of psychological torture? Dog collars and leads evidently were.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 05:53 am
McTag wrote:
I wonder why Newsweek is back-pedalling so hard. The story stands up. They must be under huge pressure (from advertisers? Government?)

I also wonder where all those copies of the Koran came from, that the guards and interrogators used. I don't imagine the prisoners could bring much with them.

Were they brought in specifically for the purpose of psychological torture? Dog collars and leads evidently were.


Not all the guards or government officials are miscreants, Mr McTag. I've read, and I have no reason to doubt it, that Korans, cloth covers, a type of drop cloth or mat for daily prayers, were all supplied to the, now words fail me, I was going to say prisoners but prisoners have rights under the Geneva Conventions, so, hmmmmm. well anyway, those folks got these things I mentioned.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 06:07 am
JTT wrote:
...I was going to say prisoners but prisoners have rights under the Geneva Conventions, so, hmmmmm. well anyway, those folks got these things I mentioned.

Actually, the convention has criteria as to which prisoners it covers and which it does not.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 06:27 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
JTT wrote:
...I was going to say prisoners but prisoners have rights under the Geneva Conventions, so, hmmmmm. well anyway, those folks got these things I mentioned.

Actually, the convention has criteria as to which prisoners it covers and which it does not.


Would you care to tell us which prisoners it does not cover, Brandon?


Part 3; Section 1; Aricle 17 reads <in part>

No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.


Who is not covered by this?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 06:33 am
Quote:

Would you care to tell us which prisoners it does not cover, Brandon?


Part 3; Section 1; Aricle 17 reads <in part>

No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.


Who is not covered by this?


You're either a strappin' youth or a masochist, Intrepid. Or you've got a backhoe. I wasn't prepared to tackle this with only a grain shovel.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 06:36 am
Under Article 4 of the Geneva Convention, Taliban detainees are not entitled to POW status. To qualify as POWs under Article 4, al Qaeda and Taliban detainees would have to have satisfied four conditions: They would have to be part of a military hierarchy; they would have to have worn uniforms or other distinctive signs visible at a distance; they would have to have carried arms openly; and they would have to have conducted their military operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 06:42 am
McGentrix wrote:
Under Article 4 of the Geneva Convention, Taliban detainees are not entitled to POW status. To qualify as POWs under Article 4, al Qaeda and Taliban detainees would have to have satisfied four conditions: They would have to be part of a military hierarchy; they would have to have worn uniforms or other distinctive signs visible at a distance; they would have to have carried arms openly; and they would have to have conducted their military operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.


That's okay then, we can beat them to death. If we hurry, there's time to do a couple more before the next prayer meeting.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 06:43 am
McGentrix wrote:
Under Article 4 of the Geneva Convention, Taliban detainees are not entitled to POW status. To qualify as POWs under Article 4, al Qaeda and Taliban detainees would have to have satisfied four conditions: They would have to be part of a military hierarchy; they would have to have worn uniforms or other distinctive signs visible at a distance; they would have to have carried arms openly; and they would have to have conducted their military operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.


Does Article 5 affect this?

Article 5

The present Convention shall apply to the persons referred to in Article 4 from the time they fall into the power of the enemy and until their final release and repatriation.

Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 May, 2005 06:48 am
Shame, shame on you Intrepid . . . have you no manners? How very ill-bred of you to point out that after more than three years, "detainees" remain in detention, without due process of law. Is that anyway for a fine son of the great white north to behave when a guest in the house of unalienable rights?
0 Replies
 
 

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