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OMG! CONDI (and BUSH & Now SCOTT) Still Thinks IRAQ = 9/11

 
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:59 pm
JTT wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
JTT wrote:
Lash wrote:
There is no evidence they didn't collude, Setanta. I'm not denying the best evidence presented, as you said.

I accept it. There were meetings and offers of assistance between them. I strongly suspected this to be the case.

The evidence lends itself more toward my assertions than yours.


Lash, the CIA operative under deep cover, that even the CIA doesn't know about.

You see Lash, rational people look for proof, especially before they rush off and kill thousands of people. "I have an inkling that such and such happened" just doesn't cut it.

Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!


Do you hold the media to those same standards? First CBS and now Newsweek. Don't forget about the New York Times and their plagiaristic writer who got fired.


More red herrings, Baldimo.

Evidently they do hold themselves to standards. Honest mistakes and still there have been consequences for all of those situations. Have you read the news?

Newsweek retracts story on Koran

Newsweek' Apologizes For Errors In Koran-Desecration Report

Have you heard boo from the biggest liars of all? No, they just spin their mistakes so rapidly that it confuses some idiots.


They are another liberial news media mouth piece that would do anything to make the US and this curent president look bad. Something of this much importance and it wasn't fact checked.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 09:40 pm
Baldimo wrote:


They are another liberial news media mouth piece that would do anything to make the US and this curent president look bad. Something of this much importance and it wasn't fact checked.


I beg your pardon! "Something of this much importance". The gall, the unmitigated gall! The blindness, the wilful blindness! Have you any inkling of what you've just admitted, Baldimo?

Regarding the facts; are you completely certain that the story wasn't fact checked?
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 09:42 pm
Quote:

Thirteen words vs. 16: The Newsweek non-story


The Bush administration is reportedly "furious" over Newsweek's now-retracted story alleging that interrogators at Guantanamo Bay may have flushed a Koran down the toilet while questioning prisoners.

"People lost their lives. People are dead," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said, referring to at least 15 people who died in protests in Afghanistan following the Koran disclosures. "People need to be very careful about what they say, just as they need to be careful about what they do."

"It's appalling that this story got out there," intoned Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher was also appalled, he said, that "an article that was unfounded to begin with has caused so much harm, including loss of life."

Appalling, indeed. Except for the fact that this "article," this "story," was neither. It was 13 words, with no further elaboration or mention -- this part of one sentence:

"Interrogators, in an attempt to rattle suspects, flushed a Koran down the toilet ..."

Now compare those 13 words -- and the harm done, including loss of life -- to these 16:

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Newsweek's possibly inaccurate reporting -- the Pentagon is has not closed its investigation into alleged Koran-flushing -- is the big story on every news channel, and will be exploited by the blogosphere's right-wing ozone holes to further vilify the media as liberal and anti-American. But George Bush's 16-word State of the Union fabrication about Saddam having his yellowcake -- well, the right wing has eaten that, making all gone.

In the eyes of Bush propagandists and apologists, being careful about what you say applies only when the "you" is not them.

Yes, people died. But many, many more have died during our unnecessary, illegal war on Iraq -- a war justified on dire warnings of imminent mushroom clouds and cooked intelligence like Bush's uranium allegation. Including civilians and allied forces, the official death count is over 23,400 -- and that's the minimum number, as painstaking estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths range tens of thousands higher.

But that's old news. The Newsweek retraction is hot and fresh, allowing the cable news shows to do what they do best -- heat up ratings, while shedding no light, with easy, inexpensive, you-suck-no-you-suck partisan demogoguery.

I could point out here that Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, last Thursday attributed the violence in Afghanistan to that country's "political reconciliation" process. I could also point out that had we not abandoned Afghanistan for Bush's manliness-proving Iraq venture, American security forces might have been able to quell the violence -- no matter what the cause -- before anyone died.

Thirdly, I could point out the British government memo confirming that "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and W.M.D. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." I could add that this smoking gun has generated nowhere near the U.S. media coverage over a period of weeks that the Newsweek apology and retraction has in two days.

But I won't. Instead I'll note only that at least Newsweek had the class to admit a possible error. And I'll leave you with the words of that inveterate seeker and teller of truth, White House spokesman Scott McLellan.

"The (Newsweek) report has had serious consequences," he scolded on Monday. "People have lost their lives. The image of the United States abroad has been damaged. I just find it puzzling."

Puzzling indeed, Scott. Who would have thought that reckless, unfounded claims could have profoundly disastrous consequences.

http://www.politicalgateway.com/main/columns/read.html?col=356

0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 09:57 pm
JTT wrote:
Baldimo wrote:


They are another liberial news media mouth piece that would do anything to make the US and this curent president look bad. Something of this much importance and it wasn't fact checked.


I beg your pardon! "Something of this much importance". The gall, the unmitigated gall! The blindness, the wilful blindness! Have you any inkling of what you've just admitted, Baldimo?

Regarding the facts; are you completely certain that the story wasn't fact checked?


If the story was checked, why did they go from saying "sources" to "source" to a full retraction. I would call that great fact checking.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:08 pm
[THIS POSTING HAS BEEN EDITED]

I've withdrawn the remark that I made to Baldimo and I apologise for the same. I'm sorry, Baldimo.
0 Replies
 
tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:11 pm
JTT wrote:
tommrr wrote:
JTT wrote:
Quote:
Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!

Got a pretty good idea of your line of thinking here. Care to expand on that statement, so I am not accussed later of putting words in you mouth?


I wonder who it might have been that bestowed this gift of prescience upon your good person, Tommrr? Do you also tell fortunes?

I thought I very civily asked a question about expanding on what you wrote. So that rather than assuming what you meant, which I interpeted to be a belief that Bush made up evidence, I decided to politiely ask you to clarify your statement. I actually enjoy participating in the debates and discussions, and try not to just assume the what someone is saying and attack them, just to find out its not what they meant at all and either have to retract my statement or just argue on blindly. What I don't like here is all the name calling, rudeness, personal attacks and mud slinging. However, I do accept the fact that it is the way around here, and am willing to deal with it. I do, however, try to stay away from the tings that I don't like. So at this point, you can either answer my easy question, or continue being an ass. IF you prefer, we can do it your way, and while I'm not a fan of it, I can be very good at it. Your choice
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 12:31 am
tommrr wrote:


I thought I very civily asked a question about expanding on what you wrote. So that rather than assuming what you meant, which I interpeted to be a belief that Bush made up evidence, I decided to politiely ask you to clarify your statement. I actually enjoy participating in the debates and discussions, and try not to just assume the what someone is saying and attack them, just to find out its not what they meant at all and either have to retract my statement or just argue on blindly. What I don't like here is all the name calling, rudeness, personal attacks and mud slinging. However, I do accept the fact that it is the way around here, and am willing to deal with it. Also, I try maintain my own standards as well. So at this point, you can either answer my easy question, or continue being an ass. IF you prefer, we can do it your way, and while I'm not a fan of it, I can be very good at it. Your choice


I'll assume that you were being civil because you stated as much. That evidence was concocted, made up, fabricated, is pretty much indisputable. If you don't know my position by now, Tommrr, spelling it out for you probably isn't going to help much.
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tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 12:48 am
Post deleted due to finding evidence contrary to my position
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 01:18 am
Baldimo wrote:
They are another liberial news media mouth piece that would do anything to make the US and this curent president look bad.


man, baldi...

you guys have got to stop saying this $hit.

it's really getting boring.

the liberal media (being anything but fox and friends ) doesn't want to make the united states look bad. that is just stupid partisan whining when someone has the balls to not suck up to the "majority party" (as we are reminded, ad nauseum, that they are).

bush doesn't need any media to make him look bad. that's the one thing he does all on his own.

honestly, for a bunch of real, do the right thing, god bless america, we know we're right types, ya'll sure do piss an' moan alot about how you get picked on.

Laughing
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tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 01:33 am
Quote:
Press Voted for Kerry 2-to-1 over Bush

A new survey confirms what many conservatives have long believed: Members of the press have an overwhelming bias for the Democratic Party.

The University of Connecticut Department of Public Policy found that journalists who were surveyed picked Democrat John Kerry over George Bush in the 2004 election by a margin of over 2-to-1.

The study found that media professionals are often out of step with the rest of America:


43 percent of the public say the press has too much freedom, but only 3 percent of journalists feel that way.

70 percent of journalists say the media do a good or excellent job when it comes to accuracy, while just 40 percent of the public agree.

Only 14 percent of the public can cite "freedom of the press" as a guarantee in the First Amendment.

60 percent of the public believe the media are biased in reporting the news.

22 percent of the public say the government should be allowed to censor the press.

53 percent of the public think journalists should not run stories with unnamed sources.

80 percent of journalists read blogs; fewer than 10 percent of non-journalists do.

61 percent of the public use TV as their main news source, while 20 percent use newspapers.

Among the journalists in the survey - from both newspapers and TV - Democrats outnumbered Republicans by 3-to-1, although about half claimed to be independent.

source
The 22% scare me though
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 01:54 am
[Following quote contributed by Tommrr]

Quote:
Press Voted for Kerry 2-to-1 over Bush

A new survey confirms what many conservatives have long believed: Members of the press have an overwhelming bias for the Democratic Party.

The University of Connecticut Department of Public Policy found that journalists who were surveyed picked Democrat John Kerry over George Bush in the 2004 election by a margin of over 2-to-1.


What does this show, Tommrr? It shows, thankfully, that at least one group of Americans still have functioning thought processes. Smile



Quote:


Myth: The U.S. has a liberal media.

Fact: The media are being increasingly monopolized by parent corporations with pro-corporate or conservative agendas.

Summary

The U.S. media are rapidly being monopolized by a dwindling number of parent corporations, all of whom have conservative economic agendas. The media are also critically dependent upon corporations for advertising. As a result, the news almost completely ignores corporate crime, as well as pro-labor and pro-consumer issues. Surveys of journalists show that the majority were personally liberal in the 1980s, but today they are centrists, with more conservatives than liberals on economic issues. However, no study has proven that they give their personal bias to the news. On the other hand, the political spectrum of pundits -- who do engage in noisy editorializing -- leans heavily to the right.

The most extreme example of this is talk radio, where liberals are almost nonexistent. The Fairness Doctrine was designed to prevent one-sided bias in the media by requiring broadcasters to air opposing views. It once enjoyed the broad support of both liberals and conservatives. But now that the media have become increasingly owned and controlled by corporations, conservatives defiantly oppose the Fairness Doctrine. This is probably the best proof that the media's bias is conservative, not liberal.


Argument

Conservatives often promote the myth that the U.S. media are liberal. This myth serves several purposes: it raises public skepticism about liberal news stories, hides conservative bias when it appears, and goads the media to the right. GOP strategist William Kristol also reveals another reason: "I admit it: the liberal media were never that powerful, and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures." (1)

In unguarded moments, however, even far-right figures like Pat Buchanan come clean: "The truth is, I've gotten fairer, more comprehensive coverage of my ideas than I ever imagined I would receive." He further conceded: "I've gotten balanced coverage and broad coverage -- all we could have askedÂ… For heaven sakes, we kid about the liberal media, but every Republican on earth does that." (2)


CONTINUED AT:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-liberalmedia.htm
0 Replies
 
tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 02:12 am
JTT wrote:
Quote:
What does this show, Tommrr? It shows, thankfully, that at least one group of Americans still have functioning thought processes.

Well, I'm not sure its THAT group that still has functioning thought process. I had just read the article, and then saw the DTOM post, and thought it was nice tie in. It also shows that anyone can make a study to show whatever results that fit their agenda. :wink:
By the way, kudos on the retraction.
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tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 02:15 am
And for the record, I don't care which way the media leans, its the general lack of journalistic skills that worry me more than anything.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 04:01 am
tommrr wrote:
And for the record, I don't care which way the media leans, its the general lack of journalistic skills that worry me more than anything.


i will agree with you on this point.

but, listing a newsmax poll on any and everything that makes liberals "out of step with america" is pretty lop sided.

that's why i don't use any thing from moveon. i may agree with a lot of what they have to say (in fact, i am a supporter), but it is a fully liberal action committee.
0 Replies
 
tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 04:24 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
tommrr wrote:
And for the record, I don't care which way the media leans, its the general lack of journalistic skills that worry me more than anything.


i will agree with you on this point.

but, listing a newsmax poll on any and everything that makes liberals "out of step with america" is pretty lop sided.

that's why i don't use any thing from moveon. i may agree with a lot of what they have to say (in fact, i am a supporter), but it is a fully liberal action committee.

I realize that...it was more the timing of the whole thing. If I were trying to make a serious point, I wouldn't have used it. That would just set myself up for some punishment.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 04:33 am
From the article JTT posted on previous page:

"People lost their lives. People are dead," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said, referring to at least 15 people who died in protests in Afghanistan following the Koran disclosures. "People need to be very careful about what they say, just as they need to be careful about what they do."


We've heard this warning before.

The Newsweek article was likely accurate. The administration could give a big fat rats arse about a measley 15 people in Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, or any other "stan." This is just them taking an opportunity, AGAIN, to point out the irrelevence of the news media. The more they can make the news look untrustworthy, the more they get by with.

Get it? It's a game. We're just pawns.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 05:09 am
Olberman see's it for what it is: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 08:06 am
Quote:
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 08:06 am
Quote:
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 May, 2005 12:26 pm
squinney wrote:
Olberman see's it for what it is: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240


yep, squinns, he does.

apparently, mcclellan doesn't have any of the concience that ari fleischer had. though, i wasn't a huge fan, i found it pretty revealing that as soon as there was a moment of dead air time, fleischer split. post haste.

am i the only one that notices that anything that doesn't come all warm and fuzzy for the right wing is declared;

a lie.

slander.

only meant to hurt the president.

demoralizes the troops.

is an attack on people of faith.

is anti-american.

reveals a voracious hatred of america.

is just the liberal elite media spinning away.

is fostered by babs streisand and haww-leeeee-wwooooooooodd. snort.

bla, bla, bla....


nope, didn't think i was.
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