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OMG! CONDI (and BUSH & Now SCOTT) Still Thinks IRAQ = 9/11

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:30 am
Quote:


http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000920906

Bush Sold the War on WMDs, Not Regime Change

With embarassing new revelations on WMDs emerging, and Bush poll numbers slipping, the president's supporters in the press argue that he actually sold the war to the public on the basis of freedom for the Iraqis, not on a WMD threat to Americans. A look at Bush's final messages to the public and to Congress just before the war began prove otherwise.


(May 15, 2005) -- Ever since it became apparent, almost two years ago, that Saddam Hussein held no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?--the most prominent reason offered by the Bush administration for going to war against him?--defenders of the U.S. invasion and occupation in the media have flailed away, attempting to uphold the president's honor.

First they claimed the weapons would still be found in Iraq. Months later, bitterly disappointed, they reluctantly admitted they had been proven wrong, but suggested that the WMDs must have been spirited out of the country, to Syria, or maybe in Michael Moore's backyard.

When that fantasy went nowhere, they claimed that, well, that wasn't Bush's only, or even his main, declared point in going to war-?-he had highlighted others, such as getting rid of a brutal dictator and bringing freedom to the Iraqi people. That's what he was really after. He did not sell the war to the American people and the press primarily on the chemical, biological and nuclear WMD threat.

We've read this argument more and more often in the press and among online pundits in the wake of the Iraqi elections. Even so, the latest Gallup polls find that 57% of Americans still feel the war is "not worth it" and 50% believe the president "deliberately misled" them on WMDs. But what about the explanation that Bush's case for the war really didn't rise and fall on WMD?

I haven't seen many editorials exploring this rationale, or articles that actually went back and looked at what Bush actually said in the days before going to war, so I decided to do it.

To test the pro-warriors' argument that Bush, highlighted other issues, particularly regime change, at least as much as he was pushing the bogus WMD threat., I went back and studied the president's address to the nation on March 17, 2003, in which he famously gave Saddam 48 hours to get out of Dodge City, or else.

Doing this, I half-expected to find that Bush's defenders would be proven correct. In my memory, just before the war, the White House did indeed begin to de-emphasize the WMD and mushroom cloud imagery, after United Nations' inspectors in Iraq failed to find anything. Alas, this was not the case at all.

Bush's key March 17 address, in printed form (available at www.whitehouse.gov), runs 27 paragraphs. For those keeping score at home, exactly 18 of those paragraphs mention or emphasize the WMD threat. Five raise the "freedom" issue.

And the WMD warnings receive much higher priority; Bush does not "bury the lead." The first four paragraphs discuss nothing but WMDs, in 10 separate sentences. Only after that, in one short paragraph, does Bush mention that Saddam's regime "has a history of reckless aggression in the Middle East" and has "deep hatred" of America. He then linked Saddam to al-Qaeda, another charge now widely discredited.

Then it was back to WMDs for eight more paragraphs, before mentioning a "new Iraq that is prosperous and free."

Walking down memory lane here, it is tempting to quote Bush assertions, such as "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised" and "Today, no nation can possibly claim that Iraq has disarmed," but I will not stoop to that.

But surely the president mentioned regime change and freedom for the Iraqis in his formal letter to Congress the following day, outlining why he was justified in going to war?

Well, no. All he listed was the "continuing threat" posed to the U.S. by Iraq, Saddam's failure to comply with U.N. resolutions on WMD, and Iraq's links to international terrorists "including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001." Even Vice Prresident Cheney has now given up on the 9/11 link.

Today, with the so-called "Downing Street Memo"-?-the July 2002 British document which suggests that the U.S. was determined to go to war and would "fix" intelligence on WMD to support that goal--finally gaining wide press attention, Bush's vulnerability on the argument for war grows even greater. Is the press ready to join that debate in earnest?

As someone intimately involved in this controversy once said, "Bring it on."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Mitchell ([email protected]) is the editor of E&P.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:41 am
I don't think anyone has addressed how they would like OBL free to plan terrorist attacks under Saddam's protection.

Osama wasn't actually gallivanting around, due to his pesky assignation as the most wanted man in the world.

I see no one has ventured to explain why Saddam and OBL--who so hated one another--would chuck that ill will to arrange meetings....
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:46 am
There is an ancient Arab conundrum, older than Islam itself:

I against my brother; both of us against our cousin; all of us against you.

We are the "you" in that expression.

The point is sufficiently belabored, but i'll point it out again. Hussein and bin Laden did not meet. Low level members of their respective organizations met, and no one, least of all the September 11th Commission, reasonably contends that any arrangements grew out of the meetings.

To continue to insist that there is anything sinister in all of that, especially as regards the red herring of September 11th collusion, is the most painful and classic example of flogging the proverbial deceased horse.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:57 am
Most people don't think Saddam was in on the actual planning of 911--but that he provided indirect assistance.

That is enough for me. And likely enough for the families of OBL's victims.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:02 am
Yes, when all else fails, one can always resort to innuendo, and a denial of the best evidence so far presented. After all, anything less might entail questioning one's core assumptions about the motives and honesty of the Shrub and his Forty Theives--we can't have that, can we ? ! ? ! ?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 05:52 pm
There is no evidence they didn't collude, Setanta. I'm not denying the best evidence presented, as you said.

I accept it. There were meetings and offers of assistance between them. I strongly suspected this to be the case.

The evidence lends itself more toward my assertions than yours.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 05:54 pm
So you claim . . .

But those who make claims have the burden of proof, so i don't intend to lose any sleep over your assertions . . .
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 06:29 pm
Lash wrote:
There is no evidence they didn't collude, Setanta. I'm not denying the best evidence presented, as you said.

I accept it. There were meetings and offers of assistance between them. I strongly suspected this to be the case.

The evidence lends itself more toward my assertions than yours.


Lash, the CIA operative under deep cover, that even the CIA doesn't know about.

You see Lash, rational people look for proof, especially before they rush off and kill thousands of people. "I have an inkling that such and such happened" just doesn't cut it.

Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:07 pm
JTT wrote:
Lash wrote:
There is no evidence they didn't collude, Setanta. I'm not denying the best evidence presented, as you said.

I accept it. There were meetings and offers of assistance between them. I strongly suspected this to be the case.

The evidence lends itself more toward my assertions than yours.


Lash, the CIA operative under deep cover, that even the CIA doesn't know about.

You see Lash, rational people look for proof, especially before they rush off and kill thousands of people. "I have an inkling that such and such happened" just doesn't cut it.

Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!


Do you hold the media to those same standards? First CBS and now Newsweek. Don't forget about the New York Times and their plagiaristic writer who got fired.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:19 pm
Lash wrote:
There is no evidence they didn't collude, Setanta. I'm not denying the best evidence presented, as you said.

I accept it. There were meetings and offers of assistance between them. I strongly suspected this to be the case.

The evidence lends itself more toward my assertions than yours.


Still, you proceed with your argument "since I can't prove it, it must exist." A case based on your logical falacy is not case at all.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:20 pm
JTT-

The facts are messages and offers of assistance were passed between SH and OBL.

Their relationship, real or imagined, was not the sole reason the war occurred.

The fact is that he forced inspectors to wait around in front of facilities while quite large trucks took off behind those facilities.

The fact is an Iraqi scientist was dragged screaming for help from a UN caravan by SH's goons.

The fact is SH had WMDs previously.

The facts do mean something to me. Do they mean anything to you?

No one has said they're conclusive. But, they are not to be ignored, either.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:21 pm
Baldimo wrote:
JTT wrote:
Lash wrote:
There is no evidence they didn't collude, Setanta. I'm not denying the best evidence presented, as you said.

I accept it. There were meetings and offers of assistance between them. I strongly suspected this to be the case.

The evidence lends itself more toward my assertions than yours.


Lash, the CIA operative under deep cover, that even the CIA doesn't know about.

You see Lash, rational people look for proof, especially before they rush off and kill thousands of people. "I have an inkling that such and such happened" just doesn't cut it.

Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!


Do you hold the media to those same standards? First CBS and now Newsweek. Don't forget about the New York Times and their plagiaristic writer who got fired.

Of course I hold the media to the same standard. Which one of those media organizations rushed off and killed thousands of people?

All those media organizations you stated retracted their statements when they proved false. It sure would be nice if you held the President to even that most basic standard.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:24 pm
Lash wrote:
JTT-

The facts are messages and offers of assistance were passed between SH and OBL.

Their relationship, real or imagined, was not the sole reason the war occurred.

The fact is that he forced inspectors to wait around in front of facilities while quite large trucks took off behind those facilities.

The fact is an Iraqi scientist was dragged screaming for help from a UN caravan by SH's goons.

The fact is SH had WMDs previously.

The facts do mean something to me. Do they mean anything to you?

No one has said they're conclusive. But, they are not to be ignored, either.
If the facts mean something perhaps you could provide your evidence of these facts occurring in 2001 or 2002. I think you just like to make up "facts" then whine that we haven't proved them untrue yet.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:24 pm
parados wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
JTT wrote:
Lash wrote:
There is no evidence they didn't collude, Setanta. I'm not denying the best evidence presented, as you said.

I accept it. There were meetings and offers of assistance between them. I strongly suspected this to be the case.

The evidence lends itself more toward my assertions than yours.


Lash, the CIA operative under deep cover, that even the CIA doesn't know about.

You see Lash, rational people look for proof, especially before they rush off and kill thousands of people. "I have an inkling that such and such happened" just doesn't cut it.

Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!


Do you hold the media to those same standards? First CBS and now Newsweek. Don't forget about the New York Times and their plagiaristic writer who got fired.

Of course I hold the media to the same standard. Which one of those media organizations rushed off and killed thousands of people?

All those media organizations you stated retracted their statements when they proved false. It sure would be nice if you held the President to even that most basic standard.


Since when is 12 years rushing?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:27 pm
Baldimo wrote:

Since when is 12 years rushing?

Care to explain the 12 years Bush waited? He hasn't been President for 12 years in my world.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:34 pm
parados wrote:
Lash wrote:
JTT-

The facts are messages and offers of assistance were passed between SH and OBL.

Their relationship, real or imagined, was not the sole reason the war occurred.

The fact is that he forced inspectors to wait around in front of facilities while quite large trucks took off behind those facilities.

The fact is an Iraqi scientist was dragged screaming for help from a UN caravan by SH's goons.

The fact is SH had WMDs previously.

The facts do mean something to me. Do they mean anything to you?

No one has said they're conclusive. But, they are not to be ignored, either.
If the facts mean something perhaps you could provide your evidence of these facts occurring in 2001 or 2002. I think you just like to make up "facts" then whine that we haven't proved them untrue yet.

One problem with coming in late and wrong--you have to read back.

Meanwhile, you yap for proof a lot for someone who runs off with his tail between his legs when somebody gives him proof.

You have unfinished business elsewhere.

Good God, parados.

You've got a LOT of reading to do.

Bush hasn't been President for 12 years...?

LOL.
0 Replies
 
tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 07:49 pm
JTT wrote:
Quote:
Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!

Got a pretty good idea of your line of thinking here. Care to expand on that statement, so I am not accussed later of putting words in you mouth?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:33 pm
Baldimo wrote:
JTT wrote:
Lash wrote:
There is no evidence they didn't collude, Setanta. I'm not denying the best evidence presented, as you said.

I accept it. There were meetings and offers of assistance between them. I strongly suspected this to be the case.

The evidence lends itself more toward my assertions than yours.


Lash, the CIA operative under deep cover, that even the CIA doesn't know about.

You see Lash, rational people look for proof, especially before they rush off and kill thousands of people. "I have an inkling that such and such happened" just doesn't cut it.

Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!


Do you hold the media to those same standards? First CBS and now Newsweek. Don't forget about the New York Times and their plagiaristic writer who got fired.


More red herrings, Baldimo.

Evidently they do hold themselves to standards. Honest mistakes and still there have been consequences for all of those situations. Have you read the news?

Newsweek retracts story on Koran

Newsweek' Apologizes For Errors In Koran-Desecration Report

Have you heard boo from the biggest liars of all? No, they just spin their mistakes so rapidly that it confuses some idiots.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:40 pm
Lash wrote:
JTT-

The facts are messages and offers of assistance were passed between SH and OBL.

Their relationship, real or imagined, was not the sole reason the war occurred.

The fact is that he forced inspectors to wait around in front of facilities while quite large trucks took off behind those facilities.

The fact is an Iraqi scientist was dragged screaming for help from a UN caravan by SH's goons.

The fact is SH had WMDs previously.

The facts do mean something to me. Do they mean anything to you?

No one has said they're conclusive. But, they are not to be ignored, either.


You don't invade sovereign countries based on lies and concocted info. You don't kill thousands of innocents under false pretenses. You don't switch stories at your convenience. You don't defend these same things unless you are seriously delusional.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 08:57 pm
tommrr wrote:
JTT wrote:
Quote:
Concocting evidence is much much worse and I suspect that your school of red herrings is designed to move the discussion away from those very pertinent FACTS!

Got a pretty good idea of your line of thinking here. Care to expand on that statement, so I am not accussed later of putting words in you mouth?


I wonder who it might have been that bestowed this gift of prescience upon your good person, Tommrr? Do you also tell fortunes?
0 Replies
 
 

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