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Rice: Gun Rights Important As Free Speech

 
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:26 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, since 5000 "White Australians" were chasing two young Muslim Australians of Lebanese origin, they certainly could have been "utterly" guilty as well.

But at least neither police press reports nor media reported such.


So these guys just came right out and started assaulting Muslims, huh?

Somehow, I get the feeling that something's missing....
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:29 am
JustWonders wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, since 5000 "White Australians" were chasing two young Muslim Australians of Lebanese origin, they certainly could have been "utterly" guilty as well.

But at least neither police press reports nor media reported such.


So these guys just came right out and started assaulting Muslims, huh?

Somehow, I get the feeling that something's missing....


oh yeah, they had just purchased yellowcake and were making nuclear suitcase bombs..... that's the standard answer right? :wink:
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:34 am
I used to go to a Persian lady to have my hair cut--i was always glad of the sheet wrapped around my neck, and made sure it was pulled out to cover my knees--wouldn't want any embarrassing tent poles showing . . .
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:38 am
JustWonders wrote:


So these guys just came right out and started assaulting Muslims, huh?

Somehow, I get the feeling that something's missing....


You've been there? You really should sell your knowledge to the (Australian) media!!! Ot at least tell it the police.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:02 am
Walter - since you seem to know exactly what happened and have decided to answer my question to dlown, perhaps you can show the source for her claim that it was "utterly innocent Muslims" that were attacked.

Otherwise, I'll just patiently await her response.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:11 am
No, I can't show you HER source, but only point to the reports in the Daily Telegraph (Sydney) and The Australian, which I can read offline.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:27 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
No, I can't show you HER source, but only point to the reports in the Daily Telegraph (Sydney) and The Australian, which I can read offline.


And the reports you've read in those publications say the Muslims that were attacked were "utterly innocent"?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:29 am
Until now I've have in no online or offline report (including the police press releases) read or seen something which could lead to a different conclusion.


But perhaps you did?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:37 am
No, but then I've not made any claims one way or the other.

It's dlown (and now you) who are saying that "utterly innocent" Muslims were attacked, but so far seem unable to prove it.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:40 am
It's the new cell phone world order. Rioting flash mobs.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 10:45 am
You certainly know the origin and the history of these riots - the sms "F***ing Aussie in the Shire get down the north Cronulla to help support Leb and wog bashing-day. Bring your mates down and let's show them that this is our beach and they're never welcome back. F***ing Lebs/wogs. Let's kill the c**ts. Tell everybody, spread the word. Fire up Aussies. Sunday midday, don't forget. Forward this to all you know and help us..." was shown/printed often enough.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 11:01 am
Ok - I "googled" this sentence from your "source":

the sms "F***ing Aussie in the Shire get down the north Cronulla to help support Leb and wog bashing-day

I got one hit - http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,17548297%5E662,00.html

Nowhere that I can see does it say that "utterly innocent" Muslims were attacked.

Quote:
Riot long time in making
Neil Wilson
13dec05

CRONULLA'S riots mark an explosion of racial tensions and social deprivation that have been building for years.

The September 11 terror attacks, anger at the Bali bombings, and a series of gang rapes in 2000-02 were all factors in a build-up of community tension against Muslim Australians.

Police and former premier Bob Carr have pulled no punches in the past in identifying suspects as of Middle Eastern extraction, but the Islamic community felt that discriminated against all their youth.

"For the past decade we've had politicians in NSW playing the ethnic card, with various criminal activities in southwestern Sydney always sheeted home to the Lebanese," said Kaysar Trad, president of the Islamic Friendship Association.

"You have a lot of frustrated young people," he said. "The real unemployment rate here is over 30 per cent for them."

Many say those tensions have been heightened by allegedly inflammatory talkback sessions hosted by Sydney's radio shock jocks.

Mr Trad said a compliant had been made to the NSW and federal attorneys-general.

"Those people have some responsibility not to risk inviting further trouble by fanning the prejudices of racist callers," he said.

He said one talkback host had urged people to go to Cronulla on Sunday for a peaceful protest.

Sunday's trouble involved a violent backlash from some Anglo-Saxon locals against what they claimed were trouble-makers from the western suburbs, primarily Lebanese from Bankstown, Lakemba and Punchbowl.

But in the alcohol-fuelled vigilante action, anyone who appeared of Mediterranean ethnicity was set upon indiscriminately by the mob.

One man bashed was of Italian ancestry.

Cronulla has been a beach magnet for Sydney's western ethnic communities for decades. But tensions have risen in recent years as big groups of Lebanese youths have flocked to North Cronulla for the beach and to Brighton-le-Sands in Botany Bay.

At Maroubra beach, further north, a local gang called the Bra Boys warned Lebanese groups off with threats of violence.

It was their territory that 40 carloads of men from Sydney's west invaded on Sunday night as they staged revenge bashings and vandalism attacks.

The Sutherland Shire, including Cronulla, is largely an Anglo-Saxon area of Sydney.

Some Cronulla residents claim to be sick of "Muslim" interlopers taunting and abusing women in bikinis, assaulting their boyfriends, and claiming "ownership" of the beach.

Some Cronulla residents who joined Sunday's melee saw a recent attack on three lifesavers, allegedly by a group of Lebanese youths, as the last straw.

Sunday's gathering of 5000 people was organised with the aid of racist SMS invitations. The trouble started, as the messages promised, at noon at Cronulla.

"Aussies: This Sunday, every f---ing Aussie in the shire, get down the North Cronulla to help support Leb and Wog bashing day. Bring your mates down and let's show them that this is our beach and their (sic) never welcome back. F--- the Lebs/Wogs, lets (sic) kill the c----. Tell everyone to spread the word," one read.

The Patriotic Youth League, considered a neo-Nazi group, distributed posters at the rally and is being investigated over SMS messages.

Researcher Dr Michael Kennedy, a NSW police detective for 20 years, said Muslim Lebanese communities were closely grouped around the Lakemba Mosque, in the Bankstown area.

"We've found these have become ethnic islands, more so than in cities like Melbourne," he said.

"You've got a lot of young people who didn't go to Year 12, a lot who are finding it hard to find jobs, so they hang out with friends and extended family."

But he said all of Sydney's ethnic communities -- Egyptians, Greeks, Italians, Croats -- had all been lumped in together at Cronulla.

"To that crowd, everyone who didn't have white skin and an Australian flag was a Lebanese," he said.

Police had arranged with the local hotel not to sell alcohol, but locals reported seeing youths carrying slabs of beer, handing out cans.

Local federal MP Bruce Baird said that despite police showing a strong presence all week, they did not have the numbers on Sunday to control the crowd. He said the nearest main police station was 15km away.

But Dr Kennedy said the setting up of squads of police to blitz trouble-spots meant they were getting a heavy-handed reputation, which was alienating the public.

"You have groups of young, ethnic men who are floating. They're under-employed, they don't listen to news and they don't pay attention to tough talk from senior police or politicians," he said.

"If they feel they are getting harassed day to day by heavy-handed policing, then there's no way you will ever win any respect or obedience from them," he said.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 11:04 am
Yeah, those riots just happened to catch a couple of criminal Lebanese guys.

Rolling Eyes

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 11:22 am
JustWonders wrote:
Nowhere that I can see does it say that "utterly innocent" Muslims were attacked.


You are correct, only "anyone who appeared of Mediterranean ethnicity was set upon indiscriminately by the mob".

You are correct as well to write about Rupert Murdoch's papers as "source".

I only quoted from that one, because I thaught some consevative source wouldn't lead to a 'liberal ...." response.

Glad that you share my opinion about the quality of Murdoch's pamphlets!
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 11:38 am
I think you "only quoted from that one" because you can't find evidence for your claim.

However, I'm sure dlowan can find one for hers and will be along momentarily.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 11:47 am
JustWonders wrote:
I think you "only quoted from that one" because you can't find evidence for your claim.


No, you're wrong. I didn't store my offline sources and those in the online media are in archives I don't want to pay for.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 12:30 pm
I apologize for unintentionally causing this thread to go off topic.

Good for Condi.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 02:32 pm
as far as i know, there's presumption of innocence in most countries. so, just like walter and dlowan, i am inclined to conclude that innocent people were attacked, unless otherwise proven. from articles that i read so far, nothing seems to indicate they were criminals. even if they were, riot like this one is inexcusable. that is not the way to settle things in a democracy.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 03:10 pm
JustWonders wrote:
No, but then I've not made any claims one way or the other.

It's dlown (and now you) who are saying that "utterly innocent" Muslims were attacked, but so far seem unable to prove it.

OK, so the logic here, as far as I have followed, is:

- A large crowd of white Australians attacked some Lebanese
- There's been no report that anyone can find that the Lebanese were criminals
- There is a report about an SMS that did the rounds that quite clearly describes xenophobic motives ("help support Leb and wog bashing-day")
- There is a report that describes how the mob ended up attacking "anyone who appeared of Mediterranean ethnicity" - "indiscriminately".

From this, in JW's world, it follows that:

- dlowan is wrong to say that "utterly innocent Muslims were attacked", and needs to be countered and called on to provide conclusive evidence
- cjhsa can be quoted deducing that "suddenly you [Australians]'re attacked by a group of Muslim thugs, who don't like you because you are white", without being questioned in any way about how he arrived at that conclusion

Rrriiight.

Somehow, now I get the feeling that something's missing...

Or is it just that its so much harder for some to imagine whites engaging in violence against innocents?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 03:28 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
You certainly know the origin and the history of these riots - the sms

"F***ing Aussie in the Shire get down the north Cronulla to help support Leb and wog bashing-day. Bring your mates down and let's show them that this is our beach and they're never welcome back. F***ing Lebs/wogs. Let's kill the c**ts. Tell everybody, spread the word. Fire up Aussies. Sunday midday, don't forget. Forward this to all you know and help us..."

was shown/printed often enough.

JustWonders wrote:
Ok - I "googled" this sentence from your "source":

the sms "F***ing Aussie in the Shire get down the north Cronulla to help support Leb and wog bashing-day

I got one hit - http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,17548297%5E662,00.html

JustWonders wrote:
I think you "only quoted from that one" because you can't find evidence for your claim.


In the category, "just because you didn't manage to find it, doesnt mean it isn't there", here's a few more examples of the SMS in question being "shown/printed often enough", as Walter said:

Daily Telegraph: Calls for calm over local revenge

Quote:
The violence came as a text message circulated in Sutherland Shire, urging locals to come to Cronulla this weekend to take revenge on Middle Eastern gangs. Police called for calm, fearing Cronulla could become a flash point for violence this summer. [..]

One witness said the trouble began when three "Aussie guys" began arguing with a group of teenagers of Middle Eastern appearance, and the argument spilled in to a brawl. [..]

Officers appealed for calm as disturbing text messages circulating around the Sutherland Shire yesterday urged "Aussies" to take revenge against "Lebs and wogs".

"This Sunday every Aussie in the Shire get down to North Cronulla to support Leb and wog bashing day," an SMS seen by The Daily Telegraph said.

"Bring your mates and let's show them that this is our beach and they are never welcome ... let's kill these boys," the message said.

ABC Online: Race riots erupt in Sydney

Quote:
JONATHAN HARLEY: The day started with a carnival-like atmosphere but it was almost inevitable that this show of strength would descend into violence. And while bigotry may be age-old, this baying mob was called to arms via the most modern of means. For days, text messages had been circulating which could leave no-one in any doubt as to the intention of the day and the sentiments of those organising it. One message read: "F***ing Aussie in the Shire get down the north Cronulla to help support Leb and wog bashing-day. Bring your mates down and let's show them that this is our beach and they're never welcome back. F***ing Lebs/wogs. Let's kill the c**ts. Tell everybody, spread the word. Fire up Aussies. Sunday midday, don't forget. Forward this to all you know and help us..."

Melbourne Herald-Sun: Cronulla riot a long time in the making

Quote:
Sunday's gathering of 5000 people was organised with the aid of racist SMS invitations. The trouble started, as the messages promised, at noon at Cronulla.

"Aussies: This Sunday, every f---ing Aussie in the shire, get down the North Cronulla to help support Leb and Wog bashing day. Bring your mates down and let's show them that this is our beach and their (sic) never welcome back. F--- the Lebs/Wogs, lets (sic) kill the c----. Tell everyone to spread the word," one read.

The Patriotic Youth League, considered a neo-Nazi group, distributed posters at the rally and is being investigated over SMS messages.

Sydney Morning Herald: A lesson in beach etiquette and good manners - Shire-style

Quote:
Those frustrations found their most provocative expression in a text message of unknown origin but wide impact. It was a blunt call to arms, saying in part: "This Sunday every f---ing Aussie in the Shire get down to north Cronulla to help support Leb and wog bashing day. Bring your mates down and lets show them that this is our beach … Let's claim back our shire."
0 Replies
 
 

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