twyvel wrote:Lola
Quote: It's a mistake, Twyvel to assume that anyone has rejected anything without contemplation unless they first ask if it is so.
Granted Twyvel. We know nothing for sure. And we have no idea whether or not something else besides brain function exists either. However, since I don't know that and I see no reason to doubt that there is a consciousness beyond or other than brain function, I start with what I have the tools to understand. I'm open and willing to new discoveries. But there are none yet. And more than that, I have such grave doubts that there could be such a thing I don't think about it much because I believe it would be a waste of my time. (I don't think it's a waste of someone else's time, but I think it would be for me.....those that have faith that there is something more will continue to use their time in this way.)
I'm here in life at a time when we don't have any tools other than scientific tools. So those are the ones I use now and if future generations find a something else.......that will be nice for them. If I lived then, I would be most happy about it, I'm sure.
My thinking on this subject starts where your thinking ends. So we don't meet very well. But I think there's room for both of us to participate in the same discussion, even though we're talking about different things.
Current research (I'm attending a lecture tomorrow about neuro-psychoanalysis) in neurology is producing fascinating data about consciousness, memory, emotional responses and perceptions, etc. So that's where I'm focused when it comes to consciousness. We are, as far as I can tell, our brain, or more correctly we are our brain function. We are electrical charges firing between neurons.
This idea disturbs many people. I have a hard time understanding why. It always seems to me that the fact that we understand what makes a car go, the mechanics of it, doesn't make the experience of riding in a car any less fun or exciting or useful, for that matter.
It seems to me that it's often an upsetting idea because it violates our narcissistic defenses. We're not the center of the universe. There actually is no center. Or that's the story that sounds most convincing to me now.
We may someday come to find that we are both talking about the same phenomena but are failing somehow to communicate with each other. My idea about reality is that what we see is what has always existed, that is I think matter and energy and space have always existed in one form or another and will continue to exist forever. So the concept of a creator is a mute point. That sounds to me like a concept of God. And I like it. What's missing from my concept of God is the old man on his throne with pearly gates and streets of gold rewarding the faithful. There's no guilt necessary for my god. I can't ask him for help without recognizing that I'm actually asking me to help myself. So why call it prayer? Why not just call it contemplation?
God's will to me is "whatever happens." I have myself and my own consciousness to account for my actions. If I fail to live up to my values (and those values have to do with loving and living with others) I feel guilty. But this way, I have more influence over what I can do about it and I'm in a better position to be helpful to others. This way of explaining our existence is comforting to me. And I think I'll keep it until I find something better that comes along.
I could say more, but I think I'll stop there.
