Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

@farmerman,

I think we have crossed wires here FM, I did not say there was a god who designed the universe.
I don't believe in god either.

I put this to people who ACTUALLY BELIEVE in intelligent design.

If there is intelligent design by a god, well I can only see two ways it could have happened.

(1) A "god" created everything and controls everything. (This is your basic religious view, is it not.)
(2) A "god" created everything and then let it find it's own path.

By all means call (2) "theistic evolution". That doesn't conflict with what I
was trying to point out to the believers of I.D.
Nor has what I was saying anything to do with evolution.

Read again.
If (1) is right then "god" is one harsh bastard to torture his creations as he does when if he is so powerful he could have created a utopia for them or just have sent them straight to heaven & bypassed all the pain & suffering. So if (1) is right, then "god" must be a sadist.

If (2) is right, then "god" just rolled the dice and said c'est la vie, he's sitting somewhere maybe smoking a cigar & saying to himself "Whatever".

So he's either a bastard or doesn't give a **** one way or the other.
So WHY oh WHY do some people worry so much about him.

So I was basically asking believers of god & I.D. , why they would be
bothered worshipping a god (designer) who either loved torturing
them or at best was indifferent to them.

1 Reply

@eurocelticyankee,

What none of you understand is that if there is no God and it becomes official you will have helped cause it and you haven't explained how we proceed through the next few generations when that happens.

Which in my book means you are being irresponsible. As Kant said.

It's as if you daren't look into the abyss you are asking everybody to jump into. You're on a free ride in other words.

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@spendius,

I think we can get along just fine without him, I for one
don't need a god or an ancient text to tell me how to be
a decent and responsible person.

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@eurocelticyankee,

We all know you don't ecy. You've been brought up a Christian. And you're only one individual anyway. You're evading the question.

You certainly didn't become a "decent and responsible person" out of your own native born resources.

The question relates to 305 million Americans being without a God which I assume is what you wish.

I can't see any objection to you not believing in God. It is your attempt to persuade others to agree with you that is the only problem at issue.

1 Reply

@spendius,

I was brought up in a good home, a loving home, religion had nothing to do with that. I was taught to be decent and care for other people by my hard working Mother, again religion had nothing to do with day. In fact the religion in my house was dished out my wonderful Granny, she like so many of her generation worshipped the church and the clergy, unquestioning loyalty, look where that got her and so many like her , betrayed by a perverted, uncaring church. I've said it before & I'll say it again I'm just glad she died before all the sordid details came out. My experience of the church was being punched around by sadistic priests. Well I for one punched back and that's why I was out of school and working at age 13. Are you blind to all the corruption and bigotry in all churches, the division it causes all over the planet or is it easier to ignore it.

Quote:

You certainly didn't become a "decent and responsible person" out of your own native born resources.

No I had a good family, I read a lot and I simply believed in being decent.
The church had nothing to do with it. All the church gave me was a healthy disrespect and suspicion of authority.

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@wandeljw,

i don't know about a scientific consensus but the us legal system considers it religion.

1 Reply

@marcuslangford,

It has a very good reason to.

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@wandeljw,

ID was utterly debunked in a major lawsuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District
I'm amazed how many simpletons and utterly naive people who belives in ID still, who can't call fraud on claims on ID.

1 Reply

@HexHammer,

You're not in the loop here Hex. You're just a newspaper reader selecting what you find convenient for your presumptions.

If you read the thread you will find that Dover was a put up job to cream the town's taxpayers and that the evidence was fixed.

Do you want a 100% atheist society? If you won't answer that you are the fraud. And if you say "yes" describe what we get if it happens.

Do you want a society devoid of simpletons and the utterly naive? Answer that and define the terms for us if you will be so kind.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

You're not in the loop here Hex. You're just a newspaper reader selecting what you find convenient for your presumptions.

If you read the thread you will find that Dover was a put up job to cream the town's taxpayers and that the evidence was fixed.

Do you want a 100% atheist society? If you won't answer that you are the fraud. And if you say "yes" describe what we get if it happens.

Do you want a society devoid of simpletons and the utterly naive? Answer that and define the terms for us if you will be so kind.

As usual you are speaking straight out of your stupid ass, you are talking about EVERYTHING but ID and what arguments there was to debunk it. My arguemtns are based not only on this lawsuit but also analyzing ID it self and it's pure rubbish.

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@HexHammer,

Excellent Hex. You are definitely "up there" when it comes to anti-ID.

1 Reply

@HexHammer,

HExhammer is quoting shpendius here

Quote:

If you read the thread you will find that Dover was a put up job to cream the town's taxpayers and that the evidence was fixed.

This, of course is a complete falsehood built up by the psychopathic mind of spendi. ACtually it is spendi who doesnt understand the entire case and its precursor actions of the DOver SChoolboard,(The majority of whom were card-carrying IDiots).
Shpenid just lkes to try to reinvent reality and history by inserting lies and mistatements.
Spendi does , when you think about it, make a perfect ID candidate. to him, facts are arbitrary. His statement that evidence was fixed is about the dummest thing hes said. The defendents brought in theior "best and brightest" and got dope-slapped like a bunch of hillbillies. In the comfort of many Monday mornings past, spendi wants to reinvent history.

Hexhammers statement to spendi needs to be repeated since it is concisely on topic

Quote:

As usual you are speaking straight out of your stupid ass, you are talking about EVERYTHING but ID and what arguments there was to debunk it

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@farmerman,

Thanks for speaking on my behalf!

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@spendius,

spendi, It's "up there" for you, because you're at the bottom of the **** hole.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

spendi, It's "up there" for you, because you're at the bottom of the **** hole.

Now CI, please don't stoop down on his lvl, least try to keep this on topic.

1 Reply

@HexHammer,

He didn't speak on your behalf Hex. He blurted.

The Dover court listened to evidence that compared a living organism to a simple mechanical device in order to satisfy the judge that irreducible complexity, which is an obvious fact and has been since Goethe, is a myth.

The court had obviously never heard of The Physiology of Excitable Cells by Prof. Aidey. In over 500 pages evolution is never mentioned.

You just agree with fm as to what an "idiot" is, despite a 90% opinion rating in the US against atheism. His whole position, and seemingly your's is based on the definition of "idiot" and is not only circular but labels 90% of Americans as idiots. Plus the billions around the world who are not atheists and the billions from before our time who were not.

Your President said "God bless Ireland". He's an idiot then?

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@HexHammer,

In the US, as the school year closes and the summer approaches, these are the times we must be vigilant because, through histroy, the summer break school boards have been the ones whove posed these "ID" and "Critical thinking" curriculum change.

I dont think it will happen in the 3rd Fed Distric but any state that was included in the Confederacy ( and a few border states) has an opportunity for "biology 101 mischief" this summer.

I always attend a July or AUgust school broad meeting because heres where they started the screwing around in the past.

1 Reply

@HexHammer,

And you're on the same side as ci. You can see how he debates just by looking.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

This, of course is a complete falsehood built up by the psychopathic mind of spendi.

Bald assertion.

Quote:

ACtually it is spendi who doesnt understand the entire case and its precursor actions of the DOver SChoolboard,(The majority of whom were card-carrying IDiots).

Three bald assertions. Not counting "actually".

Quote:

Shpenid just lkes to try to reinvent reality and history by inserting lies and mistatements.

Bald assertion.

Quote:

Spendi does , when you think about it, make a perfect ID candidate. to him, facts are arbitrary.

Three bald assertions. I'm including the one about you (Hex) thinking.

Quote:

His statement that evidence was fixed is about the dummest thing hes said.

Bald assertion.

Quote:

The defendents brought in theior "best and brightest" and got dope-slapped like a bunch of hillbillies.

Three bald assertions. Judge Jones was performing gigs to justify his ruling. One wouldn't stoop to that for "hillbillies".

Quote:

In the comfort of many Monday mornings past, spendi wants to reinvent history.

Bald assertion.

Quote:

Hexhammers statement to spendi needs to be repeated since it is concisely on topic.

Bald assertion.

The whole post covered. Emotionally driven drivel. Worthless foam from the mouth. A fantastical hysterical argument in t he service of setting aside Christian teaching on sexual morality.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

spendi, It's "up there" for you, because you're at the bottom of the **** hole.

Not quite as much as those who took your advice to short sell gold at $1,495 when it reached $1,565. It is $1,527 now.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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