Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

spendi


Boy would you be wrong on that. My position on ID /Science is like being a Democrat. It became the party of choice after I learned to read.

The term "polished monkey" is a term reserved for the "scientist priests" of the ID movement. Theyve all been handed their theses back and have been strangely quiet for about 2 years now.



In case youve not been following, the US Senate had a series of Bills that would delimit the possibilities of collecting damages and legal fees from defendents in cases where religious practices were challenged (like at Dover). However, the DOver case was presented by the ID clowns as if it were valid science. The judge ruled absolutely not and then , and only then , would the SEnate Bill (if it became law) kick in to delimit payouits by the losing side.

See, ID sees itself as science, it is not. So the Senate,populated by right wing GOPs of the "new light" breed, have tweaked it so that, if their thumpers lose a case (like ID is Not science and therefore doesnt deserve any Constitutional consideration re: the "establishment clause") then they dont have to worry about footing any legal bills for putting on their ridiculous cases. If the Senate Bill would have become law, the IDers or Creationists could burden the courts for years with their crap and never have to pay a cent of punies. Pretty slick eh? Too bad that nobody nought the logic.

2 years is nothing special at this game fm. The Great Schism lasted donkey's years. It's still going on to some extent. Then there's the Lutheran Schism and all the fragments it has spawned which were not only predictable but certainties. Their forms being more a matter of style than anything.



I hope you don't think the second sentence there ratifies the former which is another bald assertion.

So what made you Democrat? You sure can't read my posts. And there's plenty of stuff I can't read. Are we once again back with your definition of what being able to read means.

I knew about the Senate Bill. I assumed it was in the interests of those who will or have passed it. Exactly how it would be in their interests I wouldn't know as I have niether the time nor inclination to go into the matter.

I don't see what it has to do with the topic though. How does the Senate passing a bill or not passing it have anything to do with an intellectual argument except as a smokescreen to cover up a naked position. If the Senate passed a bill saying ID was science that wouldn't make the slightest difference whether it was or not.

No, actually you claimed:



The fact that he was home schooled was his PARENTS decision, not his. It actually has NO relevance to his actions.

One might just as well broadbrush the residents of Colorado because the shooter lived there. He lived in Colorado because that is where his PARENTS chose to live and bring him up. He did not choose to be raised there.

The relevance is that he chose to walk away from his parents faith and practice. Which is probably what you would've encouraged him to do, yes?

His actions reflected not his parents ethos, but rather the opposite. He despised Christians and blamed them for the world's problems. Sound familiar? It should. We hear it on A2K every day.

Hateful speech has it's consequences. I'm sure that his parents did not teach him to hate Christians, nor to hate those who were not Christians.

So, your stated 'relevance' of home schooling is anything but.

I'll tell you what made me "democratic" in my political philosophy, although I'm registered as an Independent. I believe most of the conservative philosophy about self-sufficiency, small government, less government intrusion into our lives, and free trade.

However, what I've learned during the past ten or so presidential elections that it's not about "conservatism," but becoming slaves for the rich - who can donate big bucks to your party. Yes, both parties do it, but that still doesn't make it right.

I have also witnessed that today's conservatism doesn't mean smaller or less intrusive government; Bush has created the largest federal deficit over any democrat in recent or past history. They are war mongers who would continue to support a very expensive war that costs us men and women's lives, and billions of our treasury every week, and that priority is over helping our own people at home.

I see conservatism to be "mean spirited," and not humanistic; they prefer wars over universal health care. They prefer wars over providing sufficient schools and teachers for our children.

Conservatism also means blocking most legislation in congress that will help the American People.

I will still vote for a conservative candidate for president if he/she shows some humanity, is moderate in their political philosophy, and will spend more of his/her energies to help the people at home over some foreign country that poses no threat to our security. And the individual who promises to bring our soldiers home soon. There is no way to win a war in Iraq when their own people continue to kill off each other, and without a viable government.

Democrat since you learned to read, eh?

So you must have greatly sympathized with the southern Democrats who opposed integrating the public schools for many decades when you were a young man, eh? As an educator, I'd have thought different of you.

So do you agree with me that the Dem convention will deadlock and none of the major 3 candidates will receive the nomination?

(As an Independent, it's my best guess. I have no insider info. )

Would you have preferred Saddam's 'viable' government remained in place gassing it's own citizens and filling mass graves and invading it's neighbors to seize oil and supporting/financing terrorists?

Speaking of politics, you guys -- does anyone think that the fact that this is an election year is the reason we see anti-evolution posturing in Florida and Texas?

There are bad governments all over this planet; it's not our responsibility to take care of all of them; that's the responsibility of the world community.

real, I know math is your weak point, but do the math; there are over six billion people on this planet; the US represents about 300 million. There is no way in hell we can take care of everybody - much less our own.

Are politicians who take an opposite view also guilty of 'pro-evolution posturing' ?

Or are the perjoratives only for one side?

I think you can count on politicians of whatever persuasion to make their views on a number of topics more visible to the electorate as voting day nears.

Posturing? or capitalizing on news coverage for free campaign ads?

They'll all do it. Probably you or I would too.

I'd actually prefer that they 'posture' and let me know where they stand, if the alternative is that they would attempt to hide their views.

My opinion is only worth what you paid for it.

Hope you are doing well, wandeljw.

Who is the world community, Imposter?

Outside of the portion of the Dems who are pandering to the religious leaders, I see no one out there posing a "pro evolution" platform. That would be totally illogical. You can only present an anti-evolution position as an issue, its sexy enough and will lure the scientifically ignorant.

Wandel, Not to lose yer question in the fog of political talk, of course its a pre primary position. You watch that, after the convention(especially the GOP) there will probably be one or two "breakfast" speeches at Bob Jones or Ave MAria wherein some candidate will schmooze the Fundamentalists so as to pimp for their vote. In other circles , it would lose way more votes than it would gain.
I sure as hell dont want some chowderhead antievolution/Creationist running the NSF,NIH,USGS,EPA,etc etc.
(I know the president doesnt "run" these agencies but the pres does set the standard for hiring the non civil service posts.


CI. The GOP , as originally organized, was all the things you presented and I was in concert with much of their philosophy. However, the "In your private lives and bedroom" mentality of the GOP, and(for RL) , when those SOuthern Dems all became GOPers after Civil Rights Ive been a social liberal Dem at heart with Fiscal conservative roots.

RL , I was reading at a young age and was born in 1950, SO lets say I was doing my initial comic book stage reading and early text reading by the time I was 4 , so, I wasnt of the age when Southern DEms were Klansmen. I do remember STrom Thurmon who was an alleged klansman and George Wallace , .I accept the flaws of the pols of the past. However ,I live in the TODAY and have learned that such baggage is usually brought up by the ones most in danger of losing the political fray.



However, having said that, Im damn pissed at the DEms for betraying me from the last Congressional election. I dont accept their excuses as to why they cant get anything progressive done. They are not dealing or arm twisting the GOP to "see their logic" They needed to set a tough standard and to shame GW (the meat puppet) into coming to the conclusion of (((DO NOTHING FURTHER TO DESTROY THE AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS,))) youve done enough to us George.
Not to mention that

1.We are spending about 3/4 Billion A DAY in Iraq, How much medical insurance could that provide with a years worth of war? (ANSWER: about 12w years of full funding for medicare with the money spent so far) .

2With the deepening recession, meat Puppet wants to make the TAx Cuts permanent DUHHH. They are set to run out only in another 2 years. We will need the help NOW. ALso, the tax cuts and accelerated depreciation for , say, the building industry wont do a damn thing because the home builders have a HUUGE inventory of unsold houses here in the EAst (were talking about 13% of buildout units) before the builders will invest for accelerated depreciation, they need to get their inventories down to about 4%. Krugman says thats gonna take at least 2 years.
SO , with all the "Incentives " that MEat puppet wants to tag on, none of them will have any immediate effect and will have a dubious "trickle down" effect.


But thats a whole nother thread innit?

Outside of the portion of the Dems who are pandering to the religious leaders, I see no one out there posing a "pro evolution" platform. That would be totally illogical. You can only present an anti-evolution position as an issue, its sexy enough and will lure the scientifically ignorant.

Wandel, Not to lose yer question in the fog of political talk, of course its a pre primary position. You watch that, after the convention(especially the GOP) there will probably be one or two "breakfast" speeches at Bob Jones or Ave MAria wherein some candidate will schmooze the Fundamentalists so as to pimp for their vote. In other circles , it would lose way more votes than it would gain.
I sure as hell dont want some chowderhead antievolution/Creationist running the NSF,NIH,USGS,EPA,etc etc.
(I know the president doesnt "run" these agencies but the pres does set the standard for hiring the non civil service posts.


CI. The GOP , as originally organized, was all the things you presented and I was in concert with much of their philosophy. However, the "In your private lives and bedroom" mentality of the GOP, and(for RL) , when those SOuthern Dems all became GOPers after Civil Rights Ive been a social liberal Dem at heart with Fiscal conservative roots.

RL , I was reading at a young age and was born in 1950, SO lets say I was doing my initial comic book stage reading and early text reading by the time I was 4 , so, I wasnt of the age when Southern DEms were Klansmen. I do remember STrom Thurmon who was an alleged klansman and George Wallace , .I accept the flaws of the pols of the past. However ,I live in the TODAY and have learned that such baggage is usually brought up by the ones most in danger of losing the political fray.



However, having said that, Im damn pissed at the DEms for betraying me from the last Congressional election. I dont accept their excuses as to why they cant get anything progressive done. They are not dealing or arm twisting the GOP to "see their logic" They needed to set a tough standard and to shame GW (the meat puppet) into coming to the conclusion of (((DO NOTHING FURTHER TO DESTROY THE AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS,))) youve done enough to us George.
Not to mention that

1.We are spending about 3/4 Billion A DAY in Iraq, How much medical insurance could that provide with a years worth of war? (ANSWER: about 12w years of full funding for medicare with the money spent so far) .

2With the deepening recession, meat Puppet wants to make the TAx Cuts permanent DUHHH. They are set to run out only in another 2 years. We will need the help NOW. ALso, the tax cuts and accelerated depreciation for , say, the building industry wont do a damn thing because the home builders have a HUUGE inventory of unsold houses here in the EAst (were talking about 13% of buildout units) before the builders will invest for accelerated depreciation, they need to get their inventories down to about 4%. Krugman says thats gonna take at least 2 years.
SO , with all the "Incentives " that MEat puppet wants to tag on, none of them will have any immediate effect and will have a dubious "trickle down" effect.


But thats a whole nother thread innit?

It sure is.

I only asked what made fm become a mentally fixated Democrat at whatever age he was when he found he could "read". And by implication what made him become fixated on ID/Science at the same time.

I was looking for a movie or an admired other or somesuch. Something real.

I gave you the story of my pal in the pub getting fixated on communism through finding a hammer and sickle badge on a playing field and his teacher delegating him to speak for communism in a mock political debate as a result. Resulting in him being a declared atheist all his life up to meeting me. He's wavering now. Sure it was an anecdote but a telling one. It was a mere biographical incident but change the details and something like that happens to millions of kids. It did with that vicious madman Che Guevara.

Not being able to read is when you read things like that with your eyes and they have no significance to you because your own ego is in the way and then forgetting about them and continuing as though they hadn't been said. That's not being able to read in my book.

And it's happening all the time. I'm constantly being asked things I dealt with years ago. Over and over again.

I'll allow fm might have forgotten exactly what led him to take the path he took. I just thought it might be interesting if he could remember. A picture on a wall maybe. I wasn't asking about any self-justifying hindsight explanations. Kids don't do those. Some emotional thing happens. Like when Arnold Palmer was asked not to smoke because an identification with him might lead aspiring young golfers to smoke. He didn't win a lot after that.

Not knowing that-



meant something like that means it was not comprehended (i.e. can't read) and to go on to use it as an excuse to have a ride around your own head is plum ignorant. Again.

No wonder the bolt of lightning of Jesus/the Bishop of Brixen/Modern mathematics/In car entertainment progression left you all for dead.



I'm sorry I kicked all this nonsense off.

And these guys have accused me of being off topic many times.

But I'll have my say on this bit-



You are just looking at it from one point of view fm. There are other points of view. There's no point going into them because they are all like your's- pure speculation. Your speculation makes you sound like Mr Nice Guy. We all agree with getting medical help to those who need it. Especially if they are Americans. It is how to do it.

One thing that is pie in the sky is to think you could switch that 3/4 Billion A DAY into funding medicare with a flick of the wrist. It's top-class souffle out past Uranus. And you would be abandoning 27 million Iraqis, a lot of kids, to having no medicare for a good few years to come.

And those are facts. So don't keep going on about facts.

spendi

GEe, thats a new point that Ive never heard before.Is there a DUHHHH emoticon??

Never mind rolling your eyes fm.

Scientists don't roll their eyes. They face up to the facts. Any silly plonker can roll their eyes subjectively.

I've seen it done thousands of times.

real wrote: Who is the world community, Imposter?

You're too dumb to know.

Now THERE'S a substantive answer.

Do you think that calling others dumb makes you appear smart, Imposter?

Do you have ANYTHING resembling mature conversation to offer on this forum?

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