Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Prognostications are meaningless.

You agreed with a person who made the nonsensical statement that homosexuality is a consequence of evolution... despite the fact that, hm... surely evolution would weed out homosexuality, because homosexuals wouldn't reproduce and spread their traits?

Your delusions are getting the better of you. Anti-ID =/= totalitarian movement.

Lies like de Sade and Marx invented an "anti-ID movement".

Lies like the anti-ID movement wishing to create a totalitarian government.

Spendi, you keep saying that everything would fall apart if evolutionism were embraced everywhere, but that's only true in the context of a sort of first order society, where there are only people and no structure. The fact is, that there is structure in our society, and that structure is not dependent on ID, regardless of whether or not it was at some point designed by an intelligent non-human creator.

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Your delusions are getting the better of you. Anti-ID =/= totalitarian movement.

I don't see how it could end up anywhere else.

What with your post, just this last one, containing words like nonsense, meaningless, nonsensical, delusions, rubbish, twaddle, bad, moron, strawman (the faithful standby) and lies, it's obvious that it's an assertion machine laying down the law and with power added you have totalitarianism. Maybe you think people with power are tweeting angels.

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Lies like de Sade and Marx invented an "anti-ID movement".

Who did then? It's here. It's good business.

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Lies like the anti-ID movement wishing to create a totalitarian government.

I never went that far and claimed they "wished" it so your statement is a lie. I just think it will be the outcome if they succeed in eradicating religious influence. I think they are too innocent and the ones who are not so innocent haven't got the bottle to come out and wish it in public. That's why they are so utterly silent on the social consequences of what I consider to be their affectations.

That visual aid is meaningless to you, because of your inherent inability to "see" what you're looking at. Your sense of reality has been diverted to the world of religion where life and death issues have been negated. Your heaven/life after death doesn't exist.

Then you, sir, must be blind, because in my last post I stated exactly what the anti-ID movement was about. I fail to see how they would result in totalitarianism.

After all, in society we must adhere to certain standards. One of those standards is that we mustn't teach children lies in school

Have any of the candidates on any side in your 2008 election declared their atheism and if not why not? If your statement is obviously a fact why would they not do and agree with you?

Why aren't atheists pandered too like the other minorties in America are.

Baptists take lead in opposing evolution-only standards
(By JAMES A. SMITH, Florida Baptist Witness, December 20, 2007)

TAMPA (FBW)?-From activist moms in St. Augustine, to a member of the State Board of Education in Tallahassee, to a church leader in Brandon, Florida Baptists have taken the lead in opposing proposed science standards that require evolution-only teaching in the Sunshine State's public schools.

In October, a 45-member committee appointed by the Florida Department of Education released proposed new standards for teaching science (and other subjects), requiring evolution and diversity knowledge as one of the "big ideas" for elementary students and "bodies of knowledge" for high school students.

The standards for grades 9-12 require students learn that, "Evolution is the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported by multiple forms of scientific evidence. Organisms are classified based on their evolutionary history. Natural selection is the primary mechanism leading to evolutionary change." One "benchmark" for those grades stipulates that students, "Explain how evolution is demonstrated by the fossil record, extinction, comparative anatomy, comparative embryology, biogeography, molecular biology (crosscuts with earth/space), and observed evolutionary change."

The standards were available online at www.flstandards.org, but the period to offer comments closed Dec. 14. According to statistics provided to Florida Baptist Witness by Tom Butler, press secretary for the Department of Education, 6,498 educators and 2,924 others offered 17,696 comments and 234,677 ratings of the new science standards."

"I have never seen a public response to any agenda item like this one," Fair said, noting he has served on the Board eight years.

Although formal comments may no longer be taken on the Web site, interested persons may continue to offer their views to members of the State Board of Education (http://www.fldoe.org/board/), the body that will make the ultimate decision on the new standards, probably at its Feb. 19 meeting in Tallahassee.

For Kim Kendall, a stay-at-home mom and former air traffic controller, joined by three other concerned mothers in St. Johns County, the new standards deny academic freedom to teachers and students to explore both the proofs as well as the faults of evolution.

Kendall, a member of First Baptist Church in Jacksonville, was invited to offer brief comments at the conclusion of the Dec. 11 meeting of the State Board of Education after State Sen. Stephen Wise, R-Jacksonville, intervened to request time for Kendall because the previously scheduled Jacksonville meeting had been canceled. At 8:45 p.m. on Dec. 10, however, Kendall was contacted by Education Commissioner Eric Smith who told her that she would not be permitted to offer comments at that meeting.

"It was really was more an issue of fairness to others rather than anything else," Smith told the Witness after the SBOE meeting in Tampa. "There will be an appropriate time. This just wasn't the appropriate time."

The last minute cancellation, however, did not keep Kendall and her three friends?-all with children in St. Johns County public schools?-from attending the Tampa SBOE meeting. Although they were not able to offer public comment, they met individually with members of the SBOE to share their concerns.

"We've had enough of people trying to redirect our children's brains, and it's about time we just stand up and say enough's enough," Kendall told the Witness in Tampa.

Kendall's opposition has attracted attention of newspapers across the state, including The Florida Times-Union in Jacksonville, St. Petersburg Times, Orlando Sentinel and The Associated Press. While in Tampa, Kendall appeared on "Drive Time with Bill Bunkley," aired daily 4:00-6:00 on WTBN, where she talked about the evolution issue with Bunkley, host of the program, longtime member of Idlewild Baptist Church and legislative consultant for the Florida Baptist Convention.

State Board of Education member Donna Callaway, a veteran educator and longtime member of First Baptist Church in Tallahassee, has received statewide news attention since her exclusive comments to Florida Baptist Witness were published in a Dec. 6 editorial.

"I agree completely that evolution should be taught with all of the research and study that has occurred. However, I believe it should not be taught to the exclusion of other theories of origin of life," Callaway told the Witness, adding that she would vote against the standards if they reach the SBOE in their current form.

Callaway was harshly criticized in a Dec. 10 St. Petersburg Times editorial, "Ignorance has no place in curriculum," calling on her to resign from the SBOE for putting "her religion before the educational needs of Florida students… ."

Asked after the Tampa SBOE if she would like to respond to the Times editorial, Callaway told the Witness she stands by her comments, but would decline further comment for now.

Asked by the Witness about the criticism of Callaway, SBOE Chairman Fair praised Callaway as "one of my favorite persons. She has always demonstrated good judgment. She continues to do that."

The Times also criticized Selena "Charlie" Carraway, program manager in the Office of Instructional Materials for the Department of Education, for an e-mail?-sent on her personal e-mail on private time?-encouraging opposition to the new science standards. The Times called for Carraway to be fired, although she was merely "counseled" by the Department for her "inappropriate" activity.

In the e-mail, according to a news account by the Times, Carraway identified herself as a member of Sopchoppy Southern Baptist Church, detailed the science standards' evolution-only approach and asked, "Whose agenda is this and will the Christians in Florida care enough to do something about it?"

Also present at the Tampa SBOE meeting was Terry Kemple, member of Bell Shoals Baptist Church in Brandon where he is a leader of the church's Community Issues Committee. Kemple told the Witness his church has been informing its members about the science standards and encouraging members to pray and take action.

Kemple distributed to SBOE members a letter and legal memorandum by attorney David Gibbs and curriculum expert Francis Grubbs critiquing the science standards.

"We are concerned about the scientific accuracy of the Florida standards and also about the potential some of these proposed terms might have for requiring only one particular belief system in Florida classrooms, which would be an unconstitutional violation of the Establishment Clause," write Gibbs and Grubbs.

(The entire memorandum is available on the Witness Web site: www.FloridaBaptistWitness.com.)

On evolution, case closed
(St. Petersburg Times Editorial, December 22, 2007)

Most Pinellas County School Board members say public school students should be taught about intelligent design, a supernatural explanation for the origins of life, alongside the scientifically grounded theory of evolution. Meanwhile, Eric Smith, the state's new education commissioner, curiously refuses to publicly say whether evolution should be taught in science classes or whether intelligent design should be included.

Against that backdrop, let's review the recent Pennsylvania court battle in which evolution and intelligent design were on trial. Guess which side prevailed.

In finding intelligent design is essentially repackaged creationism without scientific validity, U.S. District Judge John Jones rejected the arguments put forth by the intelligent design movement:

- Intelligent design is not religion, proponents say, but an alternative scientific explanation for the origins of life. Jones found it violates the "centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation."

- Intelligent design supporters claim "irreducibly complex" systems cannot be produced by natural processes. Jones points out this logic is based on a false dichotomy: presuming that any arguments against evolution are automatically arguments for design. But natural explanations for the evolution of biological systems are constantly being identified.

As to "irreducible complexity," the judge found its validity was not supported by the evidence. Irreducible complexity says there are systems in nature composed of interacting parts which make it operate. Take any part away and it won't function. The judge found irreducible complexity "depends on ignoring ways in which evolution is known to occur." He said exaptation is a well-established explanation for how complex biological systems with multiple parts evolved over time. Exaptation predicts these parts had different, selectable functions before combining to create a new function. To be sure, science is often able to trace complex structure and biochemical process to an earlier form or function.

- Intelligent design, proponents say, can be inferred from the "purposeful arrangement of parts." They assert that since humans can identify an object that has been designed, that reasoning can be applied to biological design.

As the judge noted, human-designed objects do not live and reproduce over time. They are not subject to natural selection. "The only attribute of design that biological systems appear to share with human artifacts is their complex appearance, i.e. if it looks complex or designed, it must have been designed."

As the judge found, "every scientific association that has spoken on the matter" has rejected the challenge to evolution mounted by proponents of intelligent design. Darwin's theory of natural selection has withstood the test of time because scientific testing has repeatedly affirmed its validity.

Any science curriculum that doesn't fully explore it, or puts it on a par with other claims of life's origins, would be seriously flawed.

Pinellas School Board members and the state education commissioner might reflect on the judge's comprehensive review and conclusions before they speak again about an accepted scientific theory they apparently know little about.