Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

The rest of your post is drivvle and full of crap not worthy of comment , with the exception that Judge Jones "levied" a 5MM bill on Dover. The trial costs are incurred by the case. HAd the school board merely gone along and taught the science requirements applied to the states standards testing, it would have been no problem. The schoolboard, in its hubris , decided to challenge the constitutionality of ID and drew a lawsuit (which is the right of any citizen, and in this case was a "class Action" suit).
The school board lost and the costs , due to their "breathtaking inanity", were assumed.

Polk School Board Leans Toward Inclusion of Intelligent Design
(By John Chambliss, The Ledger, November 20, 2007)

A majority of Polk County School Board members say they support teaching intelligent design in addition to evolution in public schools.

Board members Tim Harris, Margaret Lofton and Hazel Sellers said they oppose proposed science standards for Florida schools that lists evolution and biological diversity as one of the "big ideas" that students need to know for a well-grounded science education.

Board member Kay Fields said last week she wants intelligent design, which is promoted by some Christian groups, taught in science classes in addition to evolution.

"If it ever comes to the board for a vote, I will vote against the teaching of evolution as part of the science curriculum," Lofton said. "If (evolution) is taught, I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well."

The board's majority opinion is at odds with many in Florida's scientific community who strongly support the new, more rigorous science standards, and say intelligent design lacks scientific credibility.

Evolution, the theory that biological life developed and diversified through small changes over millions of years, is opposed by some evangelical Christians and Orthodox Jews who believe in a literal biblical interpretation of the Earth's creation. Intelligent design holds that living organisms are so complex that they must have been created by some kind of higher force.

It's unclear how the opposition by the School Board will pan out if the new standards are adopted by the state. Only Lofton has said she would vote against the evolution measure if it comes up for a vote. Others have said that it's too early to comment before the new standards are in place.

Board members Frank O'Reilly and Brenda Reddout said they were unwilling to endorse intelligent design over evolution. Board member Lori Cunningham said she hasn't made up her mind.

The School Board could discuss the issue at its meeting today at 1:30 p.m. in Bartow. Two members of Florida Citizens of Science, a group that favors the new standards, are scheduled to speak to the board.

Jonathan Smith, a retired engineer from Lakeland and member of the board of directors for Florida Citizens of Science, and Joe Wolf, president of the group, plan to tell the board that intelligent design is a religious concept, not scientific theory. Smith said that he will remind the board of what occurred in Dover, Pa., in 2005 when school board members there wanted intelligent design taught in classrooms.

U.S. District Judge John Jones barred the teaching of intelligent design in Dover, saying it is "creationism in disguise." In 1987, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that states cannot require public schools to balance evolution lessons by teaching creationism.

The school district in Dover ended up spending more than a million dollars on court fees after losing the lawsuit.

"You can't teach two sides when there isn't a second side," Smith said. "There isn't."

Smith said that board members may not understand the implications of fighting the new standards."Are they going to teach intelligent design and have a million-dollar lawsuit?" Smith asked. "I doubt that."

The current Sunshine State Standards do not explicitly use the term evolution, stating instead that students should learn about "biological changes over time."

The new standards are designed to provide more coherence in science classes and allow for teachers to cover subjects in more depth.

Polk school Superintendent Gail McKinzie said she thinks evolution is a theory and intelligent design a belief.

The district, McKinzie said, will be forced to accept the new standards if the state Board of Education adopts them unless board members "want to make a court case out of it."

The Board of Education will vote in January whether to adopt the new standards.

If the standards are adopted, local school boards in opposition will have the option of going to court, School Board Attorney Wes Bridges said.

"If the board has difficulty with the result, we will have to assess what their options may be," Bridges said. "From time to time, they are asked to do things that they don't want to do."

Bridges said the Pennsylvania case may have some influence in Florida but would not be binding.

"I know that philosophically people tend to come down in one camp or the other," Bridges said. "It seems to me that it would be wise that whatever we are teaching should be in line with the Sunshine State standards."

Despite the Pennsylvania case, some school board members want both intelligent design and evolution taught in Polk schools. They say they have received numerous e-mails and phone calls in support of intelligent design.

"My tendency would be to have both sides shared with students since neither side can be proven," Tim Harris said.

"I don't have a conflict with intelligent design versus evolution," Sellers said. "The two go together."

"It crosses the line with people who are Christians," Lofton said. "Evolution is offensive to a lot of people."

Board members O'Reilly and Reddout aren't joining the four members.

"The standards seem to be supported by many of our science teachers," Reddout said. "It doesn't make any difference what our personal opinions are."

"You're talking about separation of church and state," O'Reilly said. "I believe in intelligent design personally, but the court has ruled against it. We cannot break the law if it is set down before us."

Cunningham said she had not researched the new science standards and could not provide an answer about whether intelligent design should be taught in schools with evolution.

"I would have to research it to give you an answer," Cunningham said.

wande-

What's the gender ratio on the PCSB?

FLORIDA UPDATE

Quote:

Polk School Board Leans Toward Inclusion of Intelligent Design
(By John Chambliss, The Ledger, November 20, 2007)

A majority of Polk County School Board members say they support teaching intelligent design in addition to evolution in public schools.

Board members Tim Harris, Margaret Lofton and Hazel Sellers said they oppose proposed science standards for Florida schools that lists evolution and biological diversity as one of the "big ideas" that students need to know for a well-grounded science education.

Board member Kay Fields said last week she wants intelligent design, which is promoted by some Christian groups, taught in science classes in addition to evolution.

"If it ever comes to the board for a vote, I will vote against the teaching of evolution as part of the science curriculum," Lofton said. "If (evolution) is taught, I would want to balance it with the fact that we may live in a universe created by a supreme being as well."

What's the gender ratio on the PCSB?

about the same as the general population

FLORIDA UPDATE

Quote:

Polk School Board Leans Toward Inclusion of Intelligent Design
(By John Chambliss, The Ledger, November 20, 2007)

Despite the Pennsylvania case, some school board members want both intelligent design and evolution taught in Polk schools.

Speakers Push for Science Changes
(By John Chambliss, The Ledger, November 21, 2007)

Two members of a science group who support the addition of evolution into proposed science standards pleaded on Tuesday with Polk County School Board members to accept the new benchmarks.

"I hope they come to their senses," said Jonathan Smith, a member of the board of directors for Florida Citizens for Science. "Do they want a million-dollar lawsuit?"

After the two spoke, an eighth-grade science teacher at Union Academy in Bartow spoke in favor of intelligent design, a belief that living organisms are so complex that they must have been created by some kind of higher force.

"When you talk about laws in nature it shows some order or design," said Lawrence Hughes, who has taught at the academy for 16 years. "The laws of nature don't support change from one organism to another organism."

Four of the seven School Board members have said they support teaching intelligent design in addition to evolution in public school science classes. Board members did not respond when Smith and Joe Wolf, president of the Florida Citizens for Science, spoke about their opposition to intelligent design, but board member Margaret Lofton thanked Hughes after his talk.

"I support what you have to say," Lofton told Hughes.

Lofton has said that if the issue comes before the board she will vote against adding evolution to state science standards.

The current Sunshine State Standards do not explicitly use the term evolution, stating instead that students should learn about "biological changes over time."

In an interview after the meeting, Hughes said "a lot of evidence supports intelligent design."

"The scientific evidence to support evolution from apes is not there," Hughes said.

But Smith and others say it's clear that scientists in Florida overwhelmingly support the proposed standards, which include evolution as one of the "big ideas'' that students need to learn in science classes.

Smith called Hughes' actions a ruse to have religion pushed back into the schools.

"Intelligent design is religion," Wolf said. "The best place to see this is the decision by (U.S. District) Judge Jones."

Wolf was referring to a case in 2005 when Jones barred the teaching of intelligent design in Dover, Pa., saying that it is "creationism in disguise." The school district in Dover ended up spending more than a million dollars on court fees after losing the lawsuit.

The evolution debate in Polk County is drawing national attention. A posting on the popular science blog Pharyngula said Polk "may be our next trouble spot. They have a creationist majority on the school board."

The state committee that devised the new standards will review the new benchmarks and public input from Dec. 17-19. The state Board of Education will vote in January whether to adopt the new standards.

The beauty , and the problem with democratic governance, is that ones political career is totally independent of whether anyone on the school board is actually competent in what they profess.

If you draw a triangle on a surface and add the number of degrees formed by the 3 angles of the triangle, the total will be 180 degrees, but ONLY if the surface is flat.

consequences

wande- did that law get passed that aimed to prevent plaintiffs recovering their costs in cases like this?

I think it was you who drew our attention to it.

H.R.2679
Title: To amend the Revised Statutes of the United States to prevent the use of the legal system in a manner that extorts money from State and local governments, and the Federal Government, and inhibits such governments' constitutional actions under the first, tenth, and fourteenth amendments.
Latest Major Action: 11/13/2006 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary.

Thats why we beat the British at Yorktown, they were too busy looking up rules of engagement and proper means of defenses. We just payed the French to bottle em up and send em back home muttering about whos fault it ws.

Then, as now, there was a deep anxiety that foreign entanglements and the growth of the military and executive power would affect the liberties of subjects.

Brilliant as his synthesis of British policy is, one question about the loss of the American colonies remains. He argues that the failure in America was the result of an error in policy - the neglect of European alliances. There is no question that he is right to attribute the outcome of the war to this failure. But even if Britain had been able to muster European allies, would it have been able to keep America? Wasn't the American war a different sort of conflict: a civil war (as Simms says) fought among an often hostile population, with extended lines of supply, a war that some officers didn't want to prosecute and that was divisive at home? Getting the strategy right is important, but may not be enough to secure victory, as more than one imperial power has learnt to its cost.