Sorry- I didn't notice. The tears of laughter were difficult to see through.
This is really hot though-
Quote:2 July 2007
Before The Big Bang
Using Loop Quantum Gravity theory, physicists have proposed a new mathematical model of what the universe looked like before the Big Bang. Writing in Nature Physics, Martin Bojowald, assistant professor of physics at Penn State, explains how the work can be used to derive new details about the properties of a quantum state as it travels through the Big Bounce, a concept which Bojowald contends can replace the classical idea of a Big Bang as the beginning of the universe. The research also suggests that, although it is possible to learn about many properties of the earlier universe, we always will be uncertain about some of these properties because his calculations reveal a "cosmic forgetfulness" that results from the extreme quantum forces during the Big Bounce.
As described by Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, the origin of the Big Bang is a mathematically nonsensical state - a "singularity" of zero volume that nevertheless contained infinite density and infinitely large energy. But by using Loop Quantum Gravity, which combines Einstein's Theory of General Relativity with equations of quantum physics, Bojowald and his co-theorists have come up with what they believe is the first mathematical description to systematically establish the existence of the Big Bounce and to deduce properties of the earlier universe from which our own may have sprung.
"Einstein's Theory of General Relativity does not include the quantum physics that you must have in order to describe the extremely high energies that dominated our universe during its very early evolution," Bojowald explained, "but we now have Loop Quantum Gravity, a theory that does include the necessary quantum physics." Importantly, the theory shows that the universe at its beginning point had a minimum volume that was not zero and a maximum energy that was not infinite. As a result of these limits, the theory's equations continue to produce valid mathematical results past the point of the classical Big Bang, giving scientists a window into the time before the Big Bounce.
Quantum-gravity theory indicates that the fabric of space-time has an "atomic" geometry that is "woven" with one-dimensional quantum threads. This fabric tears violently under the extreme conditions dominated by quantum physics near the Big Bounce, causing gravity to become strongly repulsive so that, instead of vanishing into infinity as predicted by Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, the universe rebounded in the Big Bounce that gave birth to our expanding universe. The theory reveals a contracting universe before the Big Bounce, with space-time geometry that otherwise was similar to that of our universe today.
Bojowald found he had to create a new mathematical model to use with the theory of Loop Quantum Gravity in order to explore the universe before the Big Bounce with more precision. "A more precise model was needed within Loop Quantum Gravity than the existing numerical methods, which require successive approximations of the solutions and yield results that are not as general and complete as one would like," Bojowald explained. He developed a mathematical model that produces precise analytical solutions based on a set of mathematical equations.
In addition to being more precise, Bojowald's new model also is much shorter. He reformulated the quantum-gravity models using a different mathematical description, which he says made it possible to solve the equations explicitly and also turned out to be a strong simplification. "The earlier numerical model looked much more complicated, but its solutions looked very clean, which was a clue that such a mathematical simplification might exist," he explained. Bojowald reformulated quantum gravity's differential equations - which require many calculations of numerous consecutive small changes in time - into an integrable system, in which a cumulative length of time can be specified for adding up all the small incremental changes.
The model's equations require parameters that describe the state of our current universe accurately so that the universe can be "un-evolved" to reveal its state at earlier times. The model's equations also contain some "free" parameters that are not yet known precisely but are nevertheless necessary to describe certain properties. The two free parameters, which Bojowald found were complementary, represent the quantum uncertainty in the total volume of the universe before and after the Big Bang. "These uncertainties are additional parameters that apply when you put a system into a quantum context such as a theory of quantum gravity," Bojowald said. "It is similar to the uncertainty relations in quantum physics, where there is complimentarity between the position of an object and its velocity - if you measure one you cannot simultaneously measure the other."
Similarly, Bojowald's study indicates that there is complementarity between the uncertainty factors for the volume of the universe before the Big Bounce and the universe after the Big Bounce. "For all practical purposes, the precise uncertainty factor for the volume of the previous universe never will be determined by a procedure of calculating backwards from conditions in our present universe, even with most accurate measurements we ever will be able to make," Bojowald said. This discovery implies further limitations for discovering whether the matter in the universe before the Big Bang was dominated more strongly by quantum or classical properties.
"A problem with the earlier numerical model is you don't see so clearly what the free parameters really are and what their influence is," Bojowald said. "This mathematical model gives you an improved expression that contains all the free parameters and you can immediately see the influence of each one," he explained. "After the equations were solved, it was rather immediate to reach conclusions from the results."
Interestingly, Bojowald's model shows that at least one of the parameters of the previous universe did not survive its trip through the Big Bounce - that successive universes likely will not be perfect replicas of each other. "The eternal recurrence of absolutely identical universes would seem to be prevented by the apparent existence of an intrinsic cosmic forgetfulness," he concluded.
Related articles:
The Universe As Magic Roundabout
Big Bang Brouhaha Brewing
Infinite Entropy Mooted As Universal Panacea
Physicists Hope For Glimpse Of Extra Dimensions
There's as many qualifiers in that as for the Olympic Marathon where they let anybody who think they can take it have a go.
I hope the anti-IDers on here are not so quiet because their peer reviewed leaders give ordinary folks the idea that they have looped the loop, and are weaving baskets large enough to contain their burgeoning egos, on government funding which could just as easily be used for reducing the tax on beer and ciggies and brightly coloured imitation jewels with exotic names conjuring up mysterious images of pleasures unknown but vaguely sensed.
I just loved the way Mr Bojowald used the word "can" bearing in mind that nobody ever said he couldn't use the work ( a new definition of "work" obviously) to derive new details about the properties of a quantum state as it travels through the Big Bounce.
There's no law against that as far as I know.
Maybe it's joke about the size of Eve's tits. Or her bottom cheeks.
It is really exciting that he contends that his concept "can" (whoops- there it goes again) replace the classical idea of a Big Bang as the beginning of the universe and that although it is possible to learn about many properties of the earlier universe, we always will be uncertain about some of these properties because his calculations reveal a "cosmic forgetfulness" that results from the extreme quantum forces during the Big Bounce.
Nurse!!
I wish I had more time. "Many" and "some" could be a fruitful area of jocularity.
Is noone giving spendi the attention he demands? I for one havent been paying any attention so I have to plead ignorance about the direction of his wagon train.
If you haven't been paying any attention and are thus unable to follow the drift what on earth has caused your ignorant interjection which is boring and pointless.
When you come on with nothing to say except that you are not reading here you are like one of those people who sit apart from the rest and shout out every now and again in some version of the symptoms of echolalia.
It looks like you who is demanding attention and without any effort.
I spent some time finding those quotes in order that we can all see where modern science is taking us now they have hit the end of the asymptote of their possibilities. To what extent is the science to be seen there a belief system? It sure looks like one from where I sit and it seems more far fetched than Genesis which at least has the merit of being understandable by ordinary taxpayers once they have a belief in an all powerful deity which quite a majority seem to have.
Methinks you are once again projecting.
Why don't you explain what Mr Bojowald, and the others, are getting at and how it will affect our lives because I am confused about it myself and I expect most of us are.
Surely it isn't too difficult to admit that you have lost the argument and are bereft of any further ideas. It is obviously the case.
Any anti-IDer worth his corn would have jumped all over the social consequences side of things and sold science for the uses which it can be put to as Mr Huxley did. Had you not enough faith in science for that?
I have.
Quote:what on earth has caused your ignorant interjection which is boring and pointless.
Well, youre my hero, I emulate your posts.
Quote: Why don't you explain what Mr Bojowald, and the others, are getting at and how it will affect our lives because I am confused about it myself and I expect most of us are.
Then why post it? are you a budgie?
I posted it to give anti-IDers a good laugh.
IDers, I should imagine, would shake their heads slowly and sympathetically.
farmerman wrote:Is noone giving spendi the attention he demands? I for one havent been paying any attention so I have to plead ignorance about the direction of his wagon train.
I was just waiting till we get to the top of the next page.
Don't these anti-IDers post some fascinating material for the edification of our viewers?
I'm sorry wande. I thought that last post would get you to the top of the next page.
Apologies again. How long does it take?
There you go wande. Am I not a gent?
I hold doors open for ladies too.
spendi: There you go wande. Am I not a gent?
I hold doors open for ladies too.
The problem with you, spendi, is simply that you don't respect most women. That you would "open doors for some ladies" doesn't make you a "gentleman."
I think he holds the door open for them so he can look at their butts as they walk by.
I gave up "trying to 'score' ", as you real MCPs like to call the successful application of irresistable charm, when it became obvious after the great feminist victory that only "own goals" were likely. (It's a pity I feel the need to add that the last word does not mean certain due to my having realised that some anti-IDers can't read properly and commonly assume that something has been said that hasn't.)
Of course I don't respect most women. Most women these days do not deserve respect but I know a few who do and they have my respect and admiration and not one of them would ever dream of writing treacherous tripe in cheap newspapers.
wande quote-
Quote: They, like creationists, argue that humans were never apelike..
I don't. There's enough still like apes to suggest the statement is incorrect.
They can't resist trying to link Creationism with id because it makes it easier for them to undermine id, which they can't. They have a need to keep the argument at a level they can understand.
A desperate need and I understand it and am sympathetic.
It wasn't their fault that they have been led to believe that they are more intelligent than they actually are by a corrupt educational system.
They can easily understand that the fossils and the carbon dating machines and the read outs on the expensive spectrometers render the Genesis story a load of ratshit so naturally they jump all over the stuff because it reinforces what the corrupt educational system has flattered them into believing.
The very idea that there's something happening here and they don't know what it is is right off their radar.
It's nothing new. It isn't something to get excited about.
spendi, Nobody is "excited" about proving this planet is older than 7,000 years. What is "exciting" is when somebody finds bones or evidence of homo sapiens older than Lucy or the older one recently found in Australia. Now, that's exciting! That goes back a few years more than 7000 - 70,000.- 700,000. Get the idea?
