Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

OGI-

Where to start is social consequences in terms of organising a happy and efficient workforce. Not that things are perfect but do you want the slide into promiscuity and cynicism to go all the way. It is very tempting and very dangerous.

Christian sexual morality helps young ladies to defend their chastity. Some people don't like that and become atheists in the arguments. They would wouldn't they.

Anti-IDers avoid the social consequences aspects like the plague. That's why they talk about fossils and blood clotting in some one species hardly anybody ever heard of before.

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OGI-

Just watch how they are jumping all over the incident that is said to have taken place in one schoolroom on one day in one lesson and in one fraction of it.

That's how desperate they are. That's proof, scientific proof, that they are not only not intellectuals but don't even know what an intellectual is and they have the arrogance to imagine that they are and do.

Do you want intellectuals running your educational system or these half-assed noisemakers who spout without the slightest sense of responsibility for 30 to 40 million children on whom all our futures depend.

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spendi, Define "intellectual" for us?

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For such a large question I will need some time I'm afraid and I'm pretty busy as it is.

"Patience is a virtue"is one aspect of it.

"You see this one-eyed midget
Shouting the word "Now!"

Bob Dylan. Ballad of a Thin Man.

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Doesn't it go boring on here when I leave the room for a while?

Come on Spendi....Seconds out!

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spendius wrote:

For such a large question I will need some time

Take as much time as you need, spendi. I will try to keep this thread going in the meantime.

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He will be perusing his books of wisdom to give you an intellectual response C.I.

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The trouble is my dear that if we asked you to provide an answer to c.i.'s request we can be quite certain that an intellectual will markedly resemble your very self.

And it is a temptation that an intellectual can resist but only after a struggle with those aspects of his being derived from the ministrations of Mummy and Daddy, and their surrogates, and those biologically determined drives which animals also have. Sadly the struggle is too much for many.

Now that I've written that it isn't a bad definition in itself. One who succeeds in that struggle. The Martyrs say. Jesus.

I'm too weak willed to class myself as one if the Panchez position disqualifies me although there are some who think it qualifies me.

That's a question, as always, of the tension between the individual and the groups he belongs to.

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Quote:

Panchez

, Its Panza, youre at least consistant

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Pedantic to the end. Sgt Bilko. That's a different spelling.

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Its also the spelling of "fat belly" which is what Cervantes play on names had Sancho mean ."Sancho of the fat belly"

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I did not know that.

Which just goes to show what probing around can elicit.

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Quote:

Parents and District Settle Dispute on Teacher's Religious Remarks
(By TINA KELLEY, New York Times, May 10, 2007)

The Kearny Board of Education in New Jersey and the parents of Matthew LaClair, a 17-year-old junior at Kearny High School, settled their dispute on Tuesday night about a teacher who proselytized in class.

The settlement will include training for teachers and students about the separation of church and state and a public statement by the board praising Matthew for bringing the matter to its attention.

Matthew recorded his history teacher, David Paszkiewicz, making comments in class in September, including remarks that only Christians had a place in heaven, that the Big Bang and evolution theories were not scientific and that dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark. After the tapes became public, Matthew received a death threat and was shunned and bullied by some of his classmates, he has said.

Perhaps incidents such as the above are so rare on the little island nation where Spendius spends his time that they would be considered unimportant. In the boondocks of America, this kind of religious rant is not rare at all and neither are the threats to THE CHILD that emerged after he recorded and reported the teacher's odd view of the world.

That is not to say that we should get over exercised about it, no more than we would over any other abuse of children.

Joe(Maybe the teacher could also box their ears)Nation

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Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
Parents and District Settle Dispute on Teacher's Religious Remarks
(By TINA KELLEY, New York Times, May 10, 2007)

The Kearny Board of Education in New Jersey and the parents of Matthew LaClair, a 17-year-old junior at Kearny High School, settled their dispute on Tuesday night about a teacher who proselytized in class.

The settlement will include training for teachers and students about the separation of church and state and a public statement by the board praising Matthew for bringing the matter to its attention.

Matthew recorded his history teacher, David Paszkiewicz, making comments in class in September, including remarks that only Christians had a place in heaven, that the Big Bang and evolution theories were not scientific and that dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark. After the tapes became public, Matthew received a death threat and was shunned and bullied by some of his classmates, he has said.

Perhaps incidents such as the above are so rare on the little island nation where Spendius spends his time that they would be considered unimportant. In the boondocks of America, this kind of religious rant is not rare at all and neither are the threats to THE CHILD that emerged after he recorded and reported the teacher's odd view of the world.

That is not to say that we should get over exercised about it, no more than we would over any other abuse of children.

Joe(Maybe the teacher could also box their ears)Nation

Kearny New Jersey isn't far from New York City. We may need a new definition for "Boondocks of America".

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spendius wrote:

The trouble is my dear that if we asked you to provide an answer to c.i.'s request we can be quite certain that an intellectual will markedly resemble your very self.

Look Pussycat, why don't you start the day with a truth for once and admit you have no idea, and are consequently unable to answer the question.

Alternatively you could take your normal stance of utter twaddle, references and Zimmerman quotes, thinking (as you have previously pointed out to all of us) that somebody is going to take the trouble to read your foolish inconsistent meanderings in the future.

I note euthanasia is likely to become legal in Britain later this year.

The Home Office is also working on a fleet of pilotless spy drones which will be flying above our cities and towns recording our every move.
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles are going to be 'priceless' in the fight against crime and terror!

Both of the above are AID instigated proposals with favourable looking objectives.

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ros wrote-

Quote:

Kearny New Jersey isn't far from New York City. We may need a new definition for "Boondocks of America".

We might need a new one for "kids" as well. I don't think we would use that word for a 17 year old male from somewhere similar to New Jersey.

Getting "over exercised" about such an incident when hundreds of millions of real kids are being badly abused around the world all day long and everyday without much comment suggests to me a tinge of either racism or cynical opportunism.

There are male and female 17 year olds in the sex industry and in service uniform in this country. Tom Arnold was in the Navy at 12 during the 1840s or so along with many others. A number of males younger that Matthew have been shot to death here recently in what are said to be drug related turf wars.

It seems to me that Matthew has provided a bandwagon onto which people are jumping with some alacrity. We cannot even be sure that the incident wasn't staged. Has Matthew received any money?

From what I have seen on the TV of children working in sweat shops to make cheap goods for us to buy I think it is fair to say that the incident in New Jersey is being treated disproportionately possibly in order that concern for the welfare of children may be expressed when it is hardly even skin deep.

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Mathos wrote-

Quote:

Look Pussycat, why don't you start the day with a truth for once and admit you have no idea, and are consequently unable to answer the question.

It looks like the assertion technique is alive and well here in England.

Of course I can answer the question. It is finding a way to do so that will be acceptable to these boards. The very fact that you don't appreciate the difficulties c.i.'s question presents is proof that you have no idea what is involved as is also your continuous resort to assertions.

Quote:

The Home Office is also working on a fleet of pilotless spy drones which will be flying above our cities and towns recording our every move.

Don't be so naive. Have you no faith in human ingenuity.

It is a job creation scheme assuming the idea has any legs which we cannot do given your track record for asserting anything that pops into your head.

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Mathos wrote-

Quote:

Look Pussycat, why don't you start the day with a truth for once and admit you have no idea, and are consequently unable to answer the question

Did you not see this before you blurted out that crap.

Quote:

And it is a temptation that an intellectual can resist but only after a struggle with those aspects of his being derived from the ministrations of Mummy and Daddy, and their surrogates, and those biologically determined drives which animals also have. Sadly the struggle is too much for many.

Now that I've written that it isn't a bad definition in itself. One who succeeds in that struggle. The Martyrs say. Jesus

It wasn't bad for a start. It hardly constitutes having "no idea" although I recognise its limitations. It doesn't distinguish enough between psychological imperitives, such as your need to blurt, and biological ones.

Not being even remotely proximate to an intellectual yourself you might not understand the difference.

And where is this exposition of "Total anti-IDism" you promised us. Culling and baby farming are just words. It is most unlikely you agree with either.

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*QUESTION*
what is "real anti-ID"?

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"ID" stands for "intelligent design," which is a religious dog and pony show. It's an attempt to sneak creationism in the back door of education, all the while denying that it is creationism.

Spurious here is a contrarian. He disagrees with the other members here for the sake of disagreeing, and not because he knows anything about the issue of science in the "intelligent design" brouhaha, because he has consistently shown that he doesn't understand the science. It is not because he understands the American educational system, because he has shown that he knows nothing about that. (He didn't even know initially that school boards in the United States are locally elected and financed to a large extent locally, and it is only after that sank in--years after he started puling and whining here--that he began to try to cast himself as champion of the "victimized" tax-payers in Dover, Pennsylvania. Of course, he considers that those who sued the school board to remove "ID" from the school curriculum were the victimizers, rather than the school board members who attempted to introduce creationism into the science curriculum under false pretences). Finally, it is not because he understands the judicial system in the United States, because his participation here shows that he does not. His participation here also shows that he doesn't understand the history of Supreme Court and Federal Appeals Court decisions since 1968 which have removed religious particularism from school curricula.

There is no such thing as an "anti-IDer," it is just a term which Spurious invented for polemical purposes in order to slag the other members of this site in this thread.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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