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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Sat 24 Mar, 2007 11:15 am
Quote:
SMU profs upset about upcoming intelligent design conference
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 24 Mar, 2007 12:30 pm
wande quoted-

Quote:
"This is propaganda," said Dr. John Ubelaker, former chairman of the chemistry department. "Using the campus for propaganda does not fit into anybody's scheme of intellectual discussion."


If the conference turns a sound profit for the university, and others providing the sundry services usually attending on such events, there are some who might take exception to Dr. Ubelaker's use of "anybody" or of his definition of "intellectual". They might even go so far as to say his remark is a blatant and false assertion unworthy of a scientist.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sat 24 Mar, 2007 06:26 pm
I'm sure I saw a post then from fm.

He obviously realised that I had an answer to it.

Am I seeing things?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 05:25 am
who me?
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 06:08 am
That does not constitute a denial and I therefore assume that a post did occur where I thought and was quickly liquidated for some reason or other.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 06:17 am
How do you explain these visions? was it a miracle? Or merely Molson?
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 06:49 am
Easy fm. I read the post. Started a reply. Checked back and it was gone.
It was first replaced by a symbol. A ? I think and then that vanished.

It was a wise decision I remember thinking.

I couldn't have been dreaming because I dream about nicer things.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 07:03 am
And I just used Molson as a prime alliterative word. Whatd I say, I may use it sometime.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 07:46 am
hi to my friends from rio. see you folks still at it! LOL we~re departing rio at 6PM today, and will be on the atlantic for 14 days to barcelona. see all you good people when i return home to ^catch^ up.
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 08:01 am
That's assuming there's no outbreak of some deadly virus on the ship causing it to be quarantined in Darwin Sound, Tierra del Fuego.

The empirical evidence for- "see all you good people when i return home to ^catch^ up", just isn't there. It's only a probabilty.

You'll never catch up with this thread c.i.

Dedication is required for that.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 08:04 am
spendius, It~s good to know you~re still your old self. Otherwise, I would have quit this thread many months ago. he he he ...
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spendius
 
  1  
Sun 25 Mar, 2007 08:29 am
It just made me laugh seeing an empiricist making wild and unwarranted guesses about the future.

("wild and unwarranted" is nearly as good as "merely Molson". )
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 27 Mar, 2007 08:59 am
farmerman wrote:
Science, for the most part, has been divided into so many sub specialties that no worker in one area is conversant with a colleague in another. Science degrees, especially advanced degrees are mere :certification" programs no different than plumbing or medicine. There is some misguided premise that scientists be conferred false authority in fields they are not "certified " in. Thats how the Creationist/IDers poke at science. They parade a PHd nutritionist or 70 year old physician as an expert in evolution and its components. I dont know how many "lectures" in church halls that I sat in on listening to some "Saved" Orthodontist talk about how "There are no transition fossils" in the fossil record.


Here is a current example of the phenomenon that farmerman was talking about:

Quote:
Doctors to speak on creation science
(By Mary Garrigan, The Rapid City Journal, March 27, 2007)

Dr. Randy Guliuzza has a medical degree from the University of Minnesota, an engineering degree from South Dakota School of Mines & Technology and a deep belief in the Book of Genesis as scientific fact.

"Even if I did believe that the earth was 4.6 billion years old, time alone is not a magic wand that can do the impossible, biologically," Guliuzza said of his belief in supernatural creation exactly as it is found in the Bible.
Guliuzza is an Air Force physician from Ellsworth Air Force Base who will speak at the Answers in Genesis conference Friday and Saturday, March 30-31, along with two nationally known creation science experts, Carl Kerby and Dr. David Menton.

The conference, at Calvary Baptist Church, 4601 Mount Rushmore Road, has sessions geared specifically to elementary and high school age students. Those seminars are designed to give young people the confidence and the tools they need to question the theory of evolution as it is commonly taught in public schools, Guliuzza said.

In some areas of the country, biblical literalists have pushed to get creationism or intelligent design into public school science curriculums, generating lawsuits and textbook battles along the way.

Pat Peel, director of curriculum for the Rapid City School District, said curriculum issues involving evolution or intelligent design have never emerged as big local issues in Rapid City.

"We write our curriculum to teach the state standards," Peel said. The school district revised its science curriculum to meet new state teaching standards seven years ago. One year ago, it realigned the science curriculum for seventh and eighth grades. Neither change created much community concern or input on the subject of evolutionary science or creation science, Peel said.

"Nothing came to my attention that they were wrestling with that topic in the community," she said. "It has not emerged in the last seven years as a hot-button issue here."

Guliuzza wants to equip more students to question the teaching of evolution in the classroom, a scientific theory he calls "hocus pocus."

The Answers in Genesis Conference will help today's students question evolution because public school teachers can't, he said. "Teachers should be able to present criticism of evolution openly in the classroom and they should bring those arguments to the attention of students," he said.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Mar, 2007 04:16 am
We have seen on this thread many accusations against The Church for exploiting and repressing its followers.

Joseph Joubert (1754-1824) wrote this-

Quote:
The pomps and magnificence with which the Church is reproached are in truth the result and the proof of her incomparable exellence. From whence, let me ask, have come this power of hers and these excessive riches, except from the enchantment into which she threw all the world? Ravished with her beauty, millions of men from age to age kept loading her with gifts, bequests, cessions. She had the talent of making herself loved, and the talent of making men happy. It is that which wrought prodigies for her; it is from thence that she drew her power.


Matthew Arnold comments on that after quoting this from Joubert-

Quote:
She had the talent of making herself feared


"one should add that too, in order to be perfectly just; but Joubert, because he is a true child of the light, can see that the wonderful success of the Catholic Church must have been due really to her good rather than to her bad qualities; to her making herself loved rather than to her making herself feared."

And obviously so. What repressive and feared regime ever lasted the length of time the Church has lasted.

Thus the charge often made by AIDsers is false. The proof being the monumental nature of the Church and its longevity both of which facts show that the Church answers to a real and objective need in mankind to have some enchantment in their lives. That people in all stations of life have demanded it and that the Church has answered to this demand.

The boot is actually on the other foot. AIDsers are not just wrong-- they are ass-backwards.

And Joubert was quite familiar with the discourse of Voltaire and Rousseau.

And to finish-- another quote from the great and neglected man-

Quote:
It is the subjection to irreligious spirits which alone is fatal, and, in the fullest sense of the word, depraving.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 29 Mar, 2007 09:02 am
OREGON UPDATE

Quote:
Veering from Evolution
(By Christopher Stollar / The Bend Oregon Bulletin/ March 25. 2007)

On Wednesday, March 14, eight days into a new job teaching biology at Sisters High School, Kris Helphinstine showed a class of freshman and sophomore students pictures of naked corpses, a Nazi swastika and Charles Darwin in a PowerPoint presentation.

"What do these pictures have in common?" the 27-year-old part-time teacher asked the 30 students.

They listened as Helphinstine gave a roughly hourlong presentation, explaining how the Third Reich perverted evolution and eugenics to slaughter Jews and Gypsies in death camps to protect the "superior race."

On the Monday and Tuesday before giving the PowerPoint presentation, Helphinstine had given the students supplemental material that included an essay promoting creationism and links to answersingenesis.org. That Web site is "dedicated to enabling Christians to defend their faith, and to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ effectively."

When parents found out, some quickly complained. As a result, Helphinstine was put on leave Friday, March 16, and the Sisters School Board voted to fire him last Monday. Only board member Steve Rudinsky opposed the measure, saying the teacher should have received a second chance.

**********************************

Technically, Helphinstine broke no laws, other than possibly violating a statute that says schools must not engage in religious activity, said Cheryl Kleckner, a science education specialist with the Education Department.

The department's official policy statement, released in 2005 by Superintendent Susan Castillo, states: "We have been getting a number of questions about the teaching of 'creationism' and 'intelligent design.' Here's the state's position: The Oregon Science Content Standards adopted in April of 2001 clearly requires the teaching of evolution. All content standards are adopted through the legislative process and are required in the public schools in Oregon."

Kleckner said only science should be taught in science classes. "Students get confused if you teach religion in a science class. Science is based on evidence. Religion is based on faith," she said.

While Helphinstine may not have broken any laws, board members said he deviated from Sisters' curriculum.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Mar, 2007 09:24 am
Such things wande are mere details, as trifling as they are trite. They refer to minor incidents. What Kris takes it into his head to do, for whatever reason, in some school somewhere, is hardly of much importance.

My previous post refers to the whole of Christendom with quotes from two men who history has designated to be worth remembering.

Why have you no comment to make on that?
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 29 Mar, 2007 09:38 am
spendius wrote:
My previous post refers to the whole of Christendom with quotes from two men who history has designated to be worth remembering.

Why have you no comment to make on that?


There may be a need for mankind to have enchantment in life, spendi. However, I see no need for enchantment in public school school science classes. There is plenty of enchantment in literature classes.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 29 Mar, 2007 02:09 pm
spendi
Quote:
Such things wande are mere details, as trifling as they are trite. They refer to minor incidents. What Kris takes it into his head to do, for whatever reason, in some school somewhere, is hardly of much importance.
. No you are the one whos got it bass ackwards. Your post seems to advocate for fraud, deceit, and flat out lying to our kids just because you feel that there is a moral grounding.
Actually you demonstarte just the opposite , when relativistic thinking builds your value system then youve just dismissed your own God's teachings.
Quote:
My previous post refers to the whole of Christendom with quotes from two men who history has designated to be worth remembering.
. That may be true to your mind, but what youve posted from them has absolutely no relevance to this discussion.Try to stay on topic .
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 29 Mar, 2007 02:29 pm
There are a number of interesting points raised by those two posts which my limited time suffers me to forbear postponing a response.

The least interesting is that assertions continue unabated.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 29 Mar, 2007 02:43 pm
Mark Twain had an equally relevant quote.
"Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws"
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