Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

We are all little lads at heart.That's why we love mums.And the lovely apple pies they make.

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Dear me- Elsie and Adele- I wouldn't bother any more. These people you are debating against are very dogmatic and hypocritical. After following the debate for some time I don't think the terms are fair and whatever you say you will be 'seized upon' and gloated over- as though it is exact evidence that their point of view is right. Not very attractive. Leave the vultures to their 'kill'. Too bad nothing they say will actually impact the changes!

Good points on atheism, George-did you see the overreaction!? And they call you guys fundamentalists!!

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George, the dear educated fellow he is, could never be considered a "fundamentalist." Nearer, methinks, to a Jesuit. (a fellow with an actual theology rather than a protestant with none).

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hi max, why not join in and offer some support if you think that Elsie and adele are being unfairly treated. Your read of georgeob is also a few hundred degrees off. HE is our own Mike Behe. He reminds us that many gaps in knowledge exist and we should allow for the insertion of other explanations than just a strict evolutionary fundamentalism.

The level of discussion here has always been spirited but not vicious. (unless you count the traditional debates between the orange and the green).

We like evidence and data, thats what we like. We also like Watneys Red Barrel.

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George, of an education jesuitical,
Of Darwin was always most critical.
He objected to the theory
For its lack of query
Of what God would find most asthetical.

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Lola wrote:

Quote:
Atheism is just as much a faith in an a priori and absolute principle as is evangelical Protestantism, and its effects on the presumed objectivity of the holders, the same.

george,

are you still singing this tired ole song? You sweet darling. The belief in the validity of science (based on logic and the scientific method) is not the same as blind faith. There are those who make good use of blind faith while still respecting science. And the reverse is the same. The difference, which I've said now a hundred times, is that one is based on faith, without logical method and the other is based belief and respect, with logical processes. The belief in a religious explanation of reality is not the same kind of belief as believing because it's been demonstrated to you. Do I make myself clear?

Clear as mud, darling. I have read this several times and I still don't know what it means.

My proposition is that science can take us only so far in the explanations oif our origins and consciousness: after that one either chooses to live with the uncertainty and figure out his/her own way of dealing with ethics and law, or makes a blind leap of faith, either to God or to materialism. All the evidence strongly suggests the latter is the much greater (and least plausible) leap.

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george, Man has accompllished much during the psat two hundred years. Religion hasn't offered anything except mass killings, religious bigotry, and a whole lot of fearful humans of a god who doesn't understand anything about the complexities of man. Advances in science and progress in technology offers much more than creationism.

Do you take advantage of medical science? Or do you think god controls your health?

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It is very easy to get pissed off at Setanta, but it is difficult to stay that way. Clearly there is some Kerry blood in his veins. I got a good laugh out of that one - and if I thought I could equal it, I would have tried.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

george, Man has accompllished much during the psat two hundred years. Religion hasn't offered anything except mass killings, religious bigotry, and a whole lot of fearful humans of a god who doesn't understand anything about the complexities of man. Advances in science and progress in technology offers much more than creationism.

Do you take advantage of medical science? Or do you think god controls your health?

Pardon me for answering your remarks aimed at george, C.I.

Sometimes I think non-believers lump eveyone who has faith into a "religion", when doing so doesn't really make sense. The thinking of people with faith in God isn't any more monolithic than those with no faith.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

george, Man has accompllished much during the psat two hundred years. Religion hasn't offered anything except mass killings, religious bigotry, and a whole lot of fearful humans of a god who doesn't understand anything about the complexities of man. Advances in science and progress in technology offers much more than creationism.

Do you take advantage of medical science? Or do you think god controls your health?

Odd that you have made these assertions with respect to the 19th and 20th centuries, filled as they were with truly horrible carnage and oppression done in keeping with the ideas of materialist, and vociferously anti religious political philosophers and the tyrants who attempted to put them into practice.

Beyond that, I find it hard to believe you have read what I wrote.

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Quote:

Man has accompllished much during the psat two hundred years. Religion hasn't offered anything except mass killings, religious bigotry, and a whole lot of fearful humans of a god who doesn't understand anything about the complexities of man. Advances in science and progress in technology offers much more than creationism.

And you explain the 100 million deaths as a result of Atheism, how? Must be a great accomplishment. I suppose that America was founded on athiesm too, not Christianity.

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FYI, atheism is not a organized group. You must study the difference between religious groups and atheism if you wish to make any sense of your question.

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LOL!! And religious groups are!? Try Communism as an athiestic organisation- one of the main perpetrators of mass murder in the history of mankind...

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Max, You need to study what communism is all about. Communism tried to restrict religion in Russia, so it just went underground, but communism is not atheism or visa-versa. Communism is a social political-economic system. Not all communist countries restricts religion. Do your homework.

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Many communists could not differentiate between superstition and religion. Or they could not tell opium from religion.

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Many who are not communists cannot distinguish superstition from religion . . .

If you believe in things you don't understand
You'll suffer
Superstition ain't the way . . .

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Set, Thanks for your punch line.... ROFLMAO

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But after all, history shows that those who could not understand the human nature lost.

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Cicerone- go and read the Communist Manifesto.

Quote:

"There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience."
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels: The Communist Manifesto (1848)

Here's a pop quiz for you- what do you get when you strip of a society of all 'truths', 'religion' and 'morality'? hmmm.... that's a tough one.

Here's another one for you:

Quote:

"The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions."
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels: The Communist Manifesto (1848)

Homework time, little Cicerone.

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Communists are scumbags? Communists have no morals? What does that have to do with atheism?

Quote:

Man has accompllished much during the psat two hundred years. Religion hasn't offered anything except mass killings, religious bigotry, and a whole lot of fearful humans of a god who doesn't understand anything about the complexities of man. Advances in science and progress in technology offers much more than creationism.

CI never ever mentioned atheism in that. He said science and technology.... that's not atheism. It's science and technology. And science and technology have saved lots more than they have killed.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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