Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Yes.

I suffer from Stendhal Syndrome I'm afraid.

I think there's a quasi-scientific definition of the mess I'm in in the Wikipedia section of this totally amazing invention we are swimming in but some of the words are ambiguous and are not necessarily to be taken to mean what one already thinks they mean.

That's called Tunnel Vision Syndrome.

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What the hell. For those times when you are in a tunnel, that's just the sort of vision an intelligent designer would have thought to provide you with.

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Bernie suggested an interesting title. The writer does come from nowhere as La Mettrie taught, that seminal anti-IDer, as did Joyce with his fingernail paring image.

No sooner does a writer come from somewhere he becomes a preacher or a money-grubber. You have to suffer from Stendhal Syndrome to be a writer. Laughing yourself dizzy is a classic symptom.

I'm surprised you don't have it Bernie. I was given up for gone at my premature insistence on entering the world, my mother's voice did rather set the teeth on edge. (Not that I had any then but it did after I got some.) I appeared bright green at 8 months and in the morning when the consultant made his regal passage by the foot of the bed, where I was at tit, he said, I gather, I wasn't taking any notice myself, it was reported at every family do I can remember,-" The little fellow is still with us is he?"

You had a close shave yourself although not in your formative years.

But I have thought that my dear mother's constant telling of the tale was the more important contributor to my frictionlessness, which isn't quite perfected yet due to one thing and another, rather than to any Freudian interpretation. I became aware I had been given up. I had been baptised to save me from going to limbo which was very considerate of the silly f*****s don't you think?

As I hadn't at that time committed any grievous sins I couldn't possibly have been sent to the other place so I assumed I was now in Paradise although it's not exactly how I might have it designed it but it isn't bad.

I couldn't really expect the same treatment as those who have spent a life in virtuous goodness so I'm not complaining.

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This most recent discussion is in violation of all established scientific protocols and the responsible (well irresponsible) posters must be assimilated so as to serve the collective good.

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The idea Bernie suggested of-

Quote:

"The assertion from nowhere"

is foreign to my way of thinking.

The assertion comes from somewhere. And is seemingly ineradicable.

I used to race greyhounds and it was very difficult preventing them giving themselves blow-jobs in the days preceding a race where the cash was down.

I think the assertion is a psychological, self-administered blow-job and represents,symbolically, an inability to bend the spine past a certain point.

It's derivation may well be in the quite natural and understandable egotistical arrogance of a cultural experiment involving a vast, unexploited land mass, a wild unknown country that Forest Gump couldn't go wrong in, with European scientific expertise on the end of investments, and a deeply felt need to ignore those aspects and trace it to one's own fantastic intelligence and evident superiority.

But why they demanded the full pitch delivery and the forward pass I put down to sheer bloody-mindedness. And intellectual pique.

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chumly, No, Maine Coons do not fare well in the "real world" They are definate lovers of leisure, arts, long walks on the beach, and very good tuna.
Even though a male may weigh as much as a Bobcat, Im afraid it wouldnt be a fair fight. Our Maine coon is quite disgusted at mice, she finds them so lower middle class. Laughing

I thought Id fit that in here while Spendi is reciting his vespers

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hauyne and nosean

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I can't say that I am absolutely enamoured of the LMC myself. They do seem to somewhat resemble mice as fm implies.

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Chumly and rosbourn, We all know by now that spendi is not capable to address anything straight forward, so he attacks the source rather than the content.

I think spendi is a better than average swimmer, but he still doesn't realize he's got lead sinkers attached to his feet. His "drowning" is only a matter of time.

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c.i. wrote-

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I think spendi is a better than average swimmer, but he still doesn't realize he's got lead sinkers attached to his feet. His "drowning" is only a matter of time.

Stendhal himself expressed a similar view although he added that it being inevitable there was no point in dwelling on the matter.

Bernie wrote-

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What the hell. For those times when you are in a tunnel, that's just the sort of vision an intelligent designer would have thought to provide you with.

That is ambiguous too.

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which was quite considerate of the silly f***s, don't you think?

It is quite impossible not to love you, spendi. But I accept that challenge.

Not knowing la Mettrie, I looked the fellow up. My kind of boy. Apparently, Frederick gave the euology when he died, saying, "" He was merry, a good devil, a good doctor, and a very bad author. By not reading his books, one can be very content." It would have been difficult not to love Frederick, too.

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those who have spent a lifetime in virtuous goodness

I am not so rare. There are more than a handful of us...roughly one half out of baptism, another quarter through the purity of desert life, an eighth were granted the status after murdering Catholics, a sixteenth had enough cash to meet god's going rate, another thirty-secondth being beautiful women whose christian charity ran deep as a river and who understood that virtue, like a buck or a loaf of bread, ought to be selflessly gifted to those about, and then a further sixty-fourth....well, I could go on forever.

But surely your understand the point and sympathize with the dilemma. We virtuous good take a lot of **** simply because we don't quite make it across the street.

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Bernie-

Frederick also gave him asylum from those chasing him for the ultimate heresy which is roughly equivalent to wande's signature line. He liked his company at dinner.

It is not much of an exaggeration to say that he invented anti-ID and that he was the first martyr to the cause by food poisoning.

The Marquis de Sade was his first and most important disciple.

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By not reading his books, one can be very content.

Which amounts to Frederick the Great advising that contented Americans are not produced by exposure to watered down versions of anti-ID which is the general position I take.

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But surely your understand the point and sympathize with the dilemma. We virtuous good take a lot of **** simply because we don't quite make it across the street.

That is a bit like when Uncle Sweetheart (John Goodman) is explaining to Tom Friend (Jeff Bridges) the meaning of Drifter's Escape in Masked and Anonymous whilst Jack Fate (Bob Dylan) is singing it.

It was an electrifying experience to see Bob step up to the mike and open a concert with -

Ooooh Help me in my weakness, I heard the drifter say

Almost matching another opener-

God said to Abraham kill me a son

with that long black coat blowin' in the wind

Which lit a fire that raged for over two hours in a packed Wembley Stadium.

I'm not convinced that the influence of Julien Offray de La Mettrie is suitable for anyone not properly prepared for it which is unlikely to be the case with schoolchildren.

And despite his given name of Father Conmee Joyce portrays the rector as a likeable chap burdened by his wisdom.

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UTAH UPDATE

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Not a prayer
(Central Utah Daily Herald, January 16, 2007)

Sen. D. Chris Buttars somehow cannot resist sponsoring message bills that waste everyone's time.

The West Jordan Republican, having not learned his lesson with the defeat of his creationism bill in the 2006 session, Buttars is back again with another legislative solution desperately seeking a problem. He wants a state law to stipulate that individual expressions of religious faith are protected on public property.

Like last year's creationism bill, Senate Bill 111 was created with no intelligent design. It was inspired by an aggrieved constituent who claimed his child was barred from wearing a T-shirt displaying the acronym "CTR" in school. (Mormons, of course, recognize this as "Choose The Right," a slogan used in the LDS Church's Primary program.) The bill, Buttars explains on the Senate blog, would allow the government to ban religious expression only to further a compelling government interest and then only in the least restrictive way possible.

Forget about dogs that won't hunt. This is a bird that won't fly. It has wings of concrete, an easy mark for any lawyer -- which Buttars isn't. The First Amendment already protects an individual's right to wear a shirt with a religious message, to read a book about religion or to quietly pray in a public place. Buttars might have responded to his constituent that the U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that students can express themselves as long as they don't disrupt school. But that would have taken away his opportunity for religious posturing.

Buttars shouldn't worry about schools becoming devoid of religious expression. As long as pop quizzes and football games exist, so will prayer.

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And not only pop quizzes and football games wande.

Not by a very long chalk.

About the only place it can't be found, and even then one is never sure, is within the sacred precincts of the Materialist citadels where they are jolly well not going to pray to no imaginary pie-in-the-sky bullshit on no account.

If Scientists are human then those who engage in such fatuous superstitious claptrap must be a sub-species, a sort of endgame for the slow motion missing link finally mutating into the human perfection so manifestly manifested in their persons and perfectly symbolised by the shuttle throwing off the last of its boosters and soaring into empty space seemingly free, and thus, this sub-species (IDIOTS) is obviously, suitable material for providing the necessities and comforts of life for those whose task it is to take science forward into the new century and beyond.

Perhaps Sen Buttars prefers as I do to sail with a gentle tail wind, not a gale, enough to flip a feather over on a terrace paving, rather than try to sail into one, or better, for those who like a challenge, a sharp nor-easter with hail in it. All intrepid like.

What do you expect a politician to do? Votes are his life's blood. He serves the purpose of allowing the rest of the population to forget about the matter seeing as how they have such a good man on sentry duty.

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spendi, your specious "social consequences" posturings are but contemporary echo of Maffeo Cardinal Barberini's 17th Century attempts to impose Papal hegemony over all the affairs of humankind. Equating "Science" with "Secular Humanism" is a category mistake achievable only through the unquestioning embrace of ignorance, prejudice, and superstition over knowledge, tolerance, and understanding.

The only conflict between Science and Religion is to be found exclusively in the unconscionably mendacious religionist claim there be any such conflict. The religionists' problem - their foundational objection - is that Science provides no validation of any religionist proposition.

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.....and specifically, in regards to teaching evolution, William Jennings Bryan used the "social consequences" argument in his crusade during the 1920's. Like spendi, Bryan made no scientific arguments against evolution.

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Well wande that would be because Mr Bryan and myself were agreed that there is no scientific argument against evolution just as there is no scientific argument against a superior class using a lower class as a field in which to grow replacement body parts and harvest them at will.

I have no doubt that the Roman patriciate would have had few scruples about using their slaves for such a function had they evolved into modern times without the introduction and development of Christianity. Although I doubt they would have ever learned how to do organ transplants had not such a world view as Christianity prevailed in their higher councils.

An Egyptian landowner could have the feet of a tenant whipped off, with a whip I mean, for late payment of rent as late as the 1850s when Flaubert visited the country in order to expand his mind by visiting exotic locations.

China today has been accused of deploying capital punishment as a boost for that segment of their tourist industry specialising in organ transplantation which, of course, requires lower standards of justice but
not of scientific efficiency.

Mr Bryan suffered under a disadvantage which has been, to some extent, overcome today. He hadn't the information then which sociologists, economists and psychologists have provided us with.

It was relatively primitive in his day. I have seen an American newspaper headline from a period 10 years later than you mention which said that the sheriff had got up a posse to exterminate Indians. It was the official line.

And in his day society did not present the sort of problems it does now.

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spendius wrote:

........there is no scientific argument against a superior class using a lower class as a field in which to grow replacement body parts and harvest them at will.

There certainly is, in the sense that there is no scientific delineation of so-called "class".

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spendi wrote: Well wande that would be because Mr Bryan and myself were agreed that there is no scientific argument against evolution just as there is no scientific argument against a superior class using a lower class as a field in which to grow replacement body parts and harvest them at will.

Your attempts to provide analogy about evolutionary science and "grow replacement body parts" is the kind of garbage sentence created too often that has no relevance or meaning.

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Chum wrote-

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There certainly is, in the sense that there is no scientific delineation of so-called "class".

I bet I could take one look a you Chum in your best bibs and place you fairly accurately on the scale.

And there would, in my opinion, be a delineation of social class in a materialist world. I've already mentioned that in relation to restaurants. The elaboration of the procedures is what is obscuring your view. Or perhaps never having looked.

c.i. wrote-

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Your attempts to provide analogy about evolutionary science and "grow replacement body parts" is the kind of garbage sentence created too often that has no relevance or meaning.

Of course it has. It is one way of pointing out to you lot as having picked the ground on which to make your materialist case. If you read the thread you will remember that I referred to the soft underbelly of ID. You are pram stealing.

Wait until you arrive at the carapace of ID which you will if you do the underbelly in. You know how victory goes to the head and makes it dizzy with hubris. We saw that at Dover. It peeped out.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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