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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Mathos
 
  1  
Wed 15 Nov, 2006 02:12 pm
spendius wrote:
Lola wrote-

Quote:
Y'all come........hint hint, Spendi, Wande, Farmerman and all......


Count me out Lola. I refuse to submit my destiny to our tame border patrols never mind your Dep't of Homeland Security.

Just today the General Secretary of the United Nations has referred to the self-indulgent repression of the truth about global warming as "frightening" which places those who continue to engage in such repression, and you know the dangers of repression more than most Lola, as creatures from horror movies which are actually less frightening for being fakes.

Besides- I haven't got a passport and the rigmarole involved in getting one is off my radar.

Of course, I am ready to admit that he might not know what he is talking about but giving him the benefit of the doubt will enable me to save a couple of thousand dollars, prevent any disillusionment concerning my friends on A2K, allow me to continue enjoying my usual routines and, most important of all, obviate the need to pack a sodding suitcase and all the sordid thoughts that crowd the mind on such occasions.



I take it your declining the invitation then Spendi?
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 15 Nov, 2006 03:23 pm
As Sherlock Holmes might have said as he gazed absent-mindedly through the window at two typists tripping past.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 15 Nov, 2006 04:57 pm
Sherlock Holmes (a fictional character) might have said...

Come on, spendi, you can do much better.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 15 Nov, 2006 06:08 pm
I wish I could.

What do you suggest?

I had thought long and hard for a minute or two but, on reflection, at your prodding, I might consider changing "typists" to "Ministry clerks".
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 16 Nov, 2006 06:12 am
Im sure I can come up to NYC . We have excellent train service from LAncaster Pa to NYC direct.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 16 Nov, 2006 09:26 am
Farmerman, you should bookmark ehbeth's New York thread:

Bagels, etc.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 07:37 am
wandel. I bookmarked it .Thanks. Sounds like a few people can make it. Lola and the mountie will have to make a lotta cheese balls.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 09:44 am
Quote:
Speaker: Science above the fray
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 10:59 am
wande quoted-

Quote:
Intelligent design proponents, she said, "confuse the unexplained with something being unexplainable."


Not me.

The lady is correct of course.

She makes the argument that science should stay within its fences and not attempt to enter the social field as it does when it seeks the exclusive teaching of evolutionary theory in schools.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 11:04 am
spendi wrote: She makes the argument that science should stay within its fences and not attempt to enter the social field as it does when it seeks the exclusive teaching of evolutionary theory in schools.

spendi, It's the other way around: IDers are trying to teach non-science in science courses. You're half-arse backwards in your thinking.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 11:28 am
:wink: Every day is opposite day with spendi.
He confuses history with "ought -to-be"
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 11:35 am
You will both have to explain your assertions before I can possibly reply.

As they stand they are meaningless.

I have never suggested teaching non-science in science classes. The idea is ridiculous.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 11:49 am
spendi, I won't spend the time to go back and look for the statements you made about ID "should be" included with science, but I'll not waste my time. That you offer that science should not be taught in the social field is so much balogne, because it just doesn't happen. Science and social studies are two separate fields of study.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 11:55 am
spendius wrote:
science should stay within its fences and not attempt to enter the social field as it does when it seeks the exclusive teaching of evolutionary theory in schools.


spendi,
This was the "backwards" statement you made. Science does not attempt to dictate what is taught in non-science courses. Since evolutionary theory is scientific, it should be taught in science classes. Non-scientific views such as "intelligent design" may be taught in social studies or comparative religion classes.
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 12:39 pm
c.i. wrote-

Quote:
spendi, I won't spend the time to go back and look for the statements you made about ID "should be" included with science, but I'll not waste my time.


It would be a waste of time because you won't find any such statements. It is merely an impression you have got by lax reading habits. By my standards you can't read worth a blow.

wande wrote-

Quote:
spendi,
This was the "backwards" statement you made. Science does not attempt to dictate what is taught in non-science courses. Since evolutionary theory is scientific, it should be taught in science classes. Non-scientific views such as "intelligent design" may be taught in social studies or comparative religion classes.


We have been through that. Numerous times. It looks as if you didn't follow the arguments or have forgotten them. The classroom is not a sanitised box.

You are at your abstractions again. I know how convenient it is due to the oversimplification involved.

Why don't you, just for once, check up on some of the authors I have pointed to instead of chanting bloody journalese all the time.

Start with Vico. Everybody else with hair on their goolies has done.

Three months of that and you can go to La Mettrie and then to de Sade and you are away. You might be able to figure what the argument you started is all about that way in five years, say.

Superficiality is entirely unsuitable for the determination of educational policy.

I have never come across a serious writer who takes the line you lot do.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 12:55 pm
spendi,
The writers you have mentioned..... I don't think they should be taught in science class, either. Smile
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 01:02 pm
Take, for example, anti-IDer's many references to my supposed alcohol problem in the light of James Mc Donald's opening lines in Wordly Wise.

"Of all the inventions which supposedly distinguish mankind from the other animals there is one which signals the beginning of true civilisation. Harnessing fire and stumbling across the wheel are all very well, and developing a spoken language was undoubtedly a breakthrough; but surely the greatest single achievement was the discovery of alcohol. It is no accident that many alcoholic beverages are known as the water of life. In Gaelic the terms "uisge" and "beatha" mean 'water' and ' life' respectively, and "uisge beatha" means "water of life"; changed into USQUEBAUGH, then into WHISKBAE etc etc."

And let's not forget Bacchus the Lydian name for Dionysus.

Mr McDonald was a Cambridge mathematician (published) and has a book about operational research. He is also interested in etymology and philology.

Mummie's strictures about the demon drink are hardly the stuff of debate between grown ups.

Perhaps, if you expect to be taken seriously in educational matters, it might be wise to adopt a more scholarly approach than has hitherto been evident. Journalese is specifically tailored for the lowest common denominator which is to say the dumbed down Mr and Mrs Average.

You have evolution in a sanitised box as well. I'll bet "sexual selection" passes you by without pause for thought as an abstract concept.

Well- it isn't. It's like the classroom. It contains flesh.
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 01:11 pm
wande wrote-

Quote:
The writers you have mentioned..... I don't think they should be taught in science class, either


Good grief!!!!

Only wandespeak allowed eh? You are smoked out there wande. Goodstyle.

Vico practically invented science and La Mettrie and de Sade were both full-baked anti-IDers. The former kept quiet about it more or less, only having to flee for his life twice, and the latter let it all hang out and favouring a return to Pagan rites. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeheeeehe!!!!!!!

Joyce followed both.

Which had the deepest irony is a moot point but they were flat-out anti-IDers and if you think you have been critical of clericalism it can only be that you haven't seen some proper efforts.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 02:39 pm
hmmm, "if you cant be correct be wrong with as many irrelevant citations as possible"--Rodgers.

Hm ole John had a saying for every type of debate.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 17 Nov, 2006 02:41 pm
I know Im gonna hate myself later but spendi, what the hell are you even connecting with here?
Then the little John Dean scream at the end was a nice touch.
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