97
   

Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 08:43 am
WISCONSIN UPDATE

Quote:
Former UWO physics professor challenges teaching of evolution
(Sara Kemps, UWO Advance Titan, September 21, 2006)

A former UW-Oshkosh physics professor is trying to change the way evolution is taught in the Oshkosh Area School District.

Sandra Gade says evolution is being taught incorrectly in Oshkosh North and West high schools.

"The (textbook) has downright errors that are significant... it cherry-picks topics," Gade said. "When it comes to teaching, they only use supportive material."

Gade started working to change the curriculum about a year ago. She submitted three papers to the teachers of the two high schools concerning a change in the curriculum that was being taught. All three were rejected.

"Until these teachers who are the curriculum experts tell us the curriculum should be taught another way, we will keep doing things the way we are now," said Karen Bowen, OASD Board of Education clerk and student academic affairs officer for the College of Letters and Science at UW-Oshkosh. "A school board should be looking at the big picture."

Gade said the board's response to her paper was that it was "a paper on intelligent design. They have been so effectively brainwashed by their college experience that they are unaware of the existence of contrary evidence."

Gade began to circulate a petition calling for a referendum on November's ballot. The referendum would read, "Be it resolved that when evolution is taught in the Oshkosh public schools, it shall not be taught as fact but rather with pro and con evidence and with an analysis of its testability."

"The Supreme Court has ruled that public schools shall neither proselytize for religion nor be antagonistic to it. The way evolution is being taught is antagonistic to students' religious beliefs," Gade said at one of her presentations to the school board.

"My expectation is that I won't hear from (the school board). As far as they are concerned, they are happy with the way it is being taught," Gade said.

"There is no evidence against evolution. What there is is we haven't filled in all the blanks yet," said biology professor Tom Lammers. "Fossilization is a billion to one chance, it happens only in limited areas of the earth's strata under very unusual circumstances. Only a fool would expect the fossil record to give us all the pieces."

Lammers said Gade "has demonstrated that she doesn't understand what science is and how it operates, and that is very, very embarrassing for someone that is a retired professor from this institution. It's an embarrassment to all of us."

Gade earned her doctorate in physics from the University of Pittsburgh. She taught physics at UW-Oshkosh from 1996-1999.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 08:52 am
spendius wrote:
I never dispute the facts.


You'll go to Hell for lyin', too.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 11:09 am
When? Where?

Setanta signs for

Quote:
Human kind cannot bear very much reality.


That's a lie. A self-serving, sentimental piece of toffee-nosed American snotty.

"Ezra Pound and TS Eliot
Fighting in the captain's tower
While calypso singers laugh at them
And fishermen hold flowers."

Bob Dylan. Desolation Row.

Write out a hundred times- "I must learn to control my assertion reflex."
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 11:46 am
spendius wrote:
I must learn to control my assertion reflex.


Yes, i agree, you should. But none of us here expect to see it happen.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 01:20 pm
Cutting up a quote is one of the slimiest forms of lying.

It slimy because of how easy it is and weak because of the temptation, which I was aware of, succumbed to. It's been banned on our TV. Years ago.

If I was in the anti-ID coterie I would hang my head in shame to find myself associated with it.

All your reading of history has given you an obsession with great heroic deeds and famous people at the cost of any belief in the capacity and power of ordinary life to "burst forth-suddenly and miraculously- with a revelation of truth." (From a book about James Joyce).

That's why the kids in the classroom and the ordinary workers mean nothing to you and everything to me.

Your deliberate and false misquote is ordinary life bursting forth and it sure does reveal a truth. It is that the kids in Dover, and all the other schools, don't need you on their case. You use mirrors.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 02:47 pm
spendi, if you were in the anti-ID coterie, I expect I'd be ashamed to find myself associated with it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 02:51 pm
It's a shame to succumb to Spurious' propaganda, and use a non-term such as "anti-ID." Hasn't existed until Spurious dreamed it up. If you use it, the dipsomaniac has won a small victory by getting the discussion based upon his terms.

I never use it myself.

Spurious, what you know of history, and of common people, wouln't fill a gnat's @sshole . . .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 05:06 pm
Well- you have me there old chap.

I've never tried it so I don't know how much it is.

Are you asserting that a gnat's arcel is a newly minted metaphor for not very much which is reasonable giving the general tenor of you remarks. Your knowledge being, of course, in contrast, enough to fill an elephant's or are you on a Disney fantasy and it's enough to fill all the arcels in Jurassic Park?

Hey- did you see the Life of Nero in 50 minutes.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 10:49 pm
wandeljw wrote:
WISCONSIN UPDATE

Quote:
Former UWO physics professor challenges teaching of evolution
(Sara Kemps, UWO Advance Titan, September 21, 2006)

A former UW-Oshkosh physics professor is trying to change the way evolution is taught in the Oshkosh Area School District.

Sandra Gade says evolution is being taught incorrectly in Oshkosh North and West high schools.

"The (textbook) has downright errors that are significant... it cherry-picks topics," Gade said. "When it comes to teaching, they only use supportive material."

Gade started working to change the curriculum about a year ago. She submitted three papers to the teachers of the two high schools concerning a change in the curriculum that was being taught. All three were rejected.

"Until these teachers who are the curriculum experts tell us the curriculum should be taught another way, we will keep doing things the way we are now," said Karen Bowen, OASD Board of Education clerk and student academic affairs officer for the College of Letters and Science at UW-Oshkosh. "A school board should be looking at the big picture."

Gade said the board's response to her paper was that it was "a paper on intelligent design. They have been so effectively brainwashed by their college experience that they are unaware of the existence of contrary evidence."

Gade began to circulate a petition calling for a referendum on November's ballot. The referendum would read, "Be it resolved that when evolution is taught in the Oshkosh public schools, it shall not be taught as fact but rather with pro and con evidence and with an analysis of its testability."

"The Supreme Court has ruled that public schools shall neither proselytize for religion nor be antagonistic to it. The way evolution is being taught is antagonistic to students' religious beliefs," Gade said at one of her presentations to the school board.

"My expectation is that I won't hear from (the school board). As far as they are concerned, they are happy with the way it is being taught," Gade said.

"There is no evidence against evolution. What there is is we haven't filled in all the blanks yet," said biology professor Tom Lammers. "Fossilization is a billion to one chance, it happens only in limited areas of the earth's strata under very unusual circumstances. Only a fool would expect the fossil record to give us all the pieces."

Lammers said Gade "has demonstrated that she doesn't understand what science is and how it operates, and that is very, very embarrassing for someone that is a retired professor from this institution. It's an embarrassment to all of us."

Gade earned her doctorate in physics from the University of Pittsburgh. She taught physics at UW-Oshkosh from 1996-1999.


Can't be.

No real scientist doubts evolution, do they?

http://www-acs.ucsd.edu/~idea/scidoubtevol.htm

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=660
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Thu 21 Sep, 2006 11:34 pm
More idiotic strawman nonsense from rl - who misspoke when he bleated "... No real scientist doubts evolution, do they?". The proper observation is "No qualified scientist doubts evolution ...". Of course, accuracy and honesty aren't factors when it comes to ID-iocy.

Worth noting with a requote is this from the article on that Gade ID-iot:

Quote:
Lammers said Gade "has demonstrated that she doesn't understand what science is and how it operates, and that is very, very embarrassing for someone that is a retired professor from this institution. It's an embarrassment to all of us."
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 12:57 am
Quote:
Estimates of the size of the science and engineering (S&E) workforce can vary significantly depending on how one chooses to classify a scientist or engineer. For example, if only those persons with a bachelor's degree or higher who are employed in an S&E occupation are considered to be part of the S&E workforce, there were approximately 3.5 million scientists and engineers working in the United States in 1999. On the other hand, if any employed individual with a science or engineering degree is counted as part of the S&E workforce, then there were more than 10 million scientists and engineers working in the U.S. in 1999.

source:http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf02325/

Still, it did look like a long list of scientists...... 481 huh?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 03:58 am
Quote:
Lammers said Gade "has demonstrated that she doesn't understand what science is and how it operates, and that is very, very embarrassing for someone that is a retired professor from this institution. It's an embarrassment to all of us."


timber picked that out to quote and it is nothing but an assertion on which a conclusion is based.

Presumably Ms Gade was once a scientist by the definitions applied on here and has ceased to be because she's at odds with Mr Lammers. Does her demotion affect the qualifications of the students who studied physics during her professorship at Oshkosh and what does it say about those who appointed her to her responsible position?

Is Mr Lammers a scientist? On the evidence of the quote that is surely doubtful although it is a Sara Kemps on whom we rely. Is Sara qualified for her responsible position of providing the public with guidance on these difficult matters.

If Eorl's 10 million figure is anything to go by then one could hardly expect average IQs in these fields to be much above 110 given that other occupations surely account for a fair proportion of those who's IQs are in that range it is reasonable to expect those of scientists to be.

The person in the Sunday Times who recently said that the American education system is designed exclusively to help Americans of certain social classes to "feel better about themselves" ( a comfort) is obviously not as wide of the mark as one might have thought.

You do look to have something of a muddle on your hands I must say. Do you import scientists?

I think your basic problem is the credibility you attach to the assertion. Such an intellectual flaw seems to be institutionalised at the core of the national psyche. A very recent example being-

Quote:
Spurious, what you know of history, and of common people, wouln't fill a gnat's @sshole . . .


which must be as comforting as a baby's dummy dipped in syrup is to the infant and as easily administered.

As this assertion problem must be obvious to those in charge of the educational system (which I'll admit might be wishful thinking) one is left wondering why nothing is being done about it. You could easily end up with 300 million separate belief systems at this rate. An authentic Tower of Babel right there in your face.

You seem from here to be in a muddle and one can understand your internationally renowed poet saying-

"It's a wonder we can even feed ourselves."

On some evidence I've seen you certainly can't feed yourselves properly.

And why would timber think that the quote given is "worth noting"? That's an assertion as well. The quote isn't worth a gob of spit actually. It's just an assertion reinforcing the assertions of those who quote it approvingly and, as such, proper gobshite.

Richard Branson made a speech yesterday which was an excellent example of "extended assertion". He failed to answer any of the questions the BBC reporter asked him about it for the very simple reason that he couldn't. The $3 billion ( maybe £s) speaks for itself and is inevitably an accountant's assertion contrived for the purpose of a challenge to the elected Government. On the face of it he, and his shareholders, are investing in a process to wipe out their own businesses and that seems most unlikely. But the glad handing looked good. A bunch of private citizens I think they were.

And now I hear that California is going to sue the motor industry for providing it with the means to generate the wealth to organise the case.

"No reason to get excited", the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who think that life is but a joke,
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 07:29 am
timberlandko wrote:
More idiotic strawman nonsense from rl - who misspoke when he bleated "... No real scientist doubts evolution, do they?". The proper observation is "No qualified scientist doubts evolution ...". Of course, accuracy and honesty aren't factors when it comes to ID-iocy.

Worth noting with a requote is this from the article on that Gade ID-iot:

Quote:
Lammers said Gade "has demonstrated that she doesn't understand what science is and how it operates, and that is very, very embarrassing for someone that is a retired professor from this institution. It's an embarrassment to all of us."


Y'know timber, if you doubt whether they are qualified or not, why don't you contact a few of them and find out?

I provided several lists, each with hundreds of names (there is some overlap).

Many of them hold a PhD in their field and are professors at universities around the country.

Doesn't seem like they would be that hard to locate.

You might learn a thing or two.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 07:37 am
Here is a paragraph from the Burgess book Here Comes Everybody (HCE or Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker or Howth Castle and Environs or Haveth Childers Everywhere to name but three.)

"The universe can be a mystery or an antagonist: against it the comic-epic hero opposes all he has, and it is not much--merely free will and a capacity to love. His defeats are inevitable but always contain the seed of a victory that the universe, a vast mass of organised ironmongery, is not equippped to understand. It is the victory of the stoic who, though the gods themselves crush him with superior weight, knows that his values are right and theirs are wrong. The heroes of the great mock-epics are, by an ironical twist, always more admirable, because more human, than the demi-gods of true epic whom they parody. Odysseus and AEneas are all for imposing their weight, little Mediterranean kings; they try to imitate the cosmos, and the cosmos is flattered into supporting them with occasional miracles. Don Quixote and Leopold Bloom merely want to improve society with decent acts. But the cosmos sees human society as a model of itself and does not want it disturbed, hence its resentment--expressed in thunder, practical jokes, gross coincidences. "

To explain the ID/antiID connections there would insult the intelligence of some readers of this thread.

Anti-ID, like evolution theory, does not know the meaning of "decent acts" and to the extent that a putative anti-IDer does know the meaning of "decent acts" he falls short of the true anti-ID position which is to say he is half-baked.

If rl can't have fun with that he is not the man I take him for.

Maybe it's the fear of feeling crushed by the "superior weight" which motivates the anti-IDer.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 08:14 am
rl, you persist in playing the twit and put up yet another straw man. Qualified means qualified. A botanist is a scientist by definition, but without other consideration apart from credentials in botany is unqualified to design aerospace life support systems, a mechanical engineer is a equally scientist with a genetic engineer, yet neither, absent other consideration, are qualified in the other's field. A Doctor of Philosophy is a doctor, but a Doctor of Medicine is qualified to undertake hands-on healthcare. There are millions of scientists, however one chooses to define the word, and by and large, as an overall demographic, the spiritual attitudes of scientists are not much different from those of society as a whole - hardly surprising. On the other hand, when it comes to evolution, among those scientists who actually do know what they're talking about, there is to all practical purpose (99.85%) no dissent - evolution is an accepted fact.

Quote:
Only 0.15% of earth and life scientists subscribe to one of the creation science belief systems ...

Various U.S. court decisions have concluded that "creation science" is not actually science. This is because the beliefs of creation scientists cannot be falsified; i.e. it would be impossible for a creation scientist to accept a proof that naturalistic or theistic evolution is true. That is because their fundamental, foundational belief is that the Book of Genesis is inerrant. All physical evidence is judged by comparing it to Genesis. No evidence from nature can disprove this belief. Once a person accepts a religious text as the basis of their scientific studies, they no longer are free to follow where the data leads; they cease being a scientist ...


[url=http://www.aaas.org/]The American Association for the Advancement of Science[/url] wrote:
AAAS Board Resolution on Intelligent Design Theory
The contemporary theory of biological evolution is one of the most robust products of scientific inquiry. It is the foundation for research in many areas of biology as well as an essential element of science education. To become informed and responsible citizens in our contemporary technological world, students need to study the theories and empirical evidence central to current scientific understanding.

Over the past several years proponents of so-called "intelligent design theory," also known as ID, have challenged the accepted scientific theory of biological evolution. As part of this effort they have sought to introduce the teaching of "intelligent design theory" into the science curricula of the public schools. The movement presents "intelligent design theory" to the public as a theoretical innovation, supported by scientific evidence, that offers a more adequate explanation for the origin of the diversity of living organisms than the current scientifically accepted theory of evolution. In response to this effort, individual scientists and philosophers of science have provided substantive critiques of "intelligent design," demonstrating significant conceptual flaws in its formulation, a lack of credible scientific evidence, and misrepresentations of scientific facts.

Recognizing that the "intelligent design theory" represents a challenge to the quality of science education, the Board of Directors of the AAAS unanimously adopts the following resolution:

Whereas, ID proponents claim that contemporary evolutionary theory is incapable of explaining the origin of the diversity of living organisms;

Whereas, to date, the ID movement has failed to offer credible scientific evidence to support their claim that ID undermines the current scientifically accepted theory of evolution;

Whereas, the ID movement has not proposed a scientific means of testing its claims;

Therefore Be It Resolved, that the lack of scientific warrant for so-called "intelligent design theory" makes it improper to include as a part of science education;

Therefore Be Further It Resolved, that AAAS urges citizens across the nation to oppose the establishment of policies that would permit the teaching of "intelligent design theory" as a part of the science curricula of the public schools;

Therefore Be It Further Resolved, that AAAS calls upon its members to assist those engaged in overseeing science education policy to understand the nature of science, the content of contemporary evolutionary theory and the inappropriateness of "intelligent design theory" as subject matter for science education;

Therefore Be Further It Resolved, that AAAS encourages its affiliated societies to endorse this resolution and to communicate their support to appropriate parties at the federal, state and local levels of the government.


Approved by the AAAS Board of Directors on 10/18/02


Quote:
American Astronomical Society Statement on the Teaching of Evolution

20 September 2005

The American Astronomical Society supports teaching evolution in our nation's K-12 science classes. Evolution is a valid scientific theory for the origin of species that has been repeatedly tested and verified through observation, formulation of testable statements to explain those observations, and controlled experiments or additional observations to find out whether these ideas are right or wrong. A scientific theory is not speculation or a guess -- scientific theories are unifying concepts that explain the physical universe.

Astronomical observations show that the Universe is many billions of years old (see the AAS publication, An Ancient Universe, cited below), that nuclear reactions in stars have produced the chemical elements over time, and recent observations show that gravity has led to the formation of many planets in our Galaxy. The early history of the solar system is being explored by astronomical observation and by direct visits to solar system objects. Fossils, radiological measurements, and changes in DNA trace the growth of the tree of life on Earth. The theory of evolution, like the theories of gravity, plate tectonics, and Big Bang cosmology, explains, unifies, and predicts natural phenomena. Scientific theories provide a proven framework for improving our understanding of the world.

In recent years, advocates of "Intelligent Design" have proposed teaching "Intelligent Design" as a valid alternative theory for the history of life. Although scientists have vigorous discussions on interpretations for some aspects of evolution, there is widespread agreement on the power of natural selection to shape the emergence of new species. Even if there were no such agreement, "Intelligent Design" fails to meet the basic definition of a scientific idea: its proponents do not present testable hypotheses and do not provide evidence for their views that can be verified or duplicated by subsequent researchers.

Since "Intelligent Design" is not science, it does not belong in the science curriculum of the nation's primary and secondary schools.

The AAS supports the positions taken by the National Academy of Sciences, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the National Science Teachers Association, the American Geophysical Union, the American Chemical Society, and the American Association of Physics Teachers on the teaching of evolution. The AAS also supports the National Science Education Standards: they emphasize the importance of scientific methods as well as articulating well-established scientific theories.


The fact of the matter is that 55% of "Scientists" ascribe to a purely naturalistic view of evolution, 40% allow there may have been a deistic role in what otherwise has been a naturalistic process, and a mere 5% swallow the Creationist twaddle hook-line-and-sinker.

Quote:
(A)ccording to the random survey of 1000 persons listed in the 1995 American Men and Women of Science

55% of scientists hold a naturalistic and atheistic position on the origins of man

Scientists almost unanimously accept Darwinian evolution over millions of years as the source of human origins. But 40%...include God in the process.

Only 5 percent of the scientists agreed [with] the biblical view that God created humans "pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10 000 years."

The survey ... asked ... the same Gallup Poll question posed to the public in 1982 and 1991. In the 1991 round, 40 percent of Americans said God "guided" evolution to create humans.

While this 40% is a middle ground of agreement between scientists and the public, there is a sharp polarization between the groups taking purely naturalistic or biblical views. While most scientists are atheistic about human origins, nearly half of Americans adhere to the biblical view that God created humans "pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10 000 years." Forty-six percent of Americans agreed with this view of human origins in the 1991 Gallup poll. Only 5 percent of the scientists agreed.

Because only a quarter to a third of Americans are Protestant evangelicals or fundamentalists, the 1991 Gallup Poll showed that many mainline Protestants, Catholics and Jews believe in a "last 10,000 years human creation." The 1991 poll also showed that college-educated Americans were far more likely to accept evolution, underscoring their closer affinity to the views of scientists.2

The standard view in science is that modern-day Homo sapiens emerged 40,000 years ago and began to organize societies 10,000 years ago. The oldest humanlike ape is called Australopithecus, or "southern ape." It was found in Africa and is believed to date back 4 million years. Homo erectus developed 1.8 million years ago. Neanderthals roamed Europe and Asia beginning 100,000 years ago.

The survey was a separate but parallel study to one reported in Nature (1997 Apr 3; 386:435-6) in which 40 percent of the same scientists reported a belief in a God who answers prayers and in immortality. Both surveys were conducted by a reporter for the Washington Times and Edward J Larson, a historian of science at the University of Georgia. The report in Nature was based on a replication of a 1916 survey that scandalized Americans by finding that 45 percent of scientists were atheists and 15 percent were agnostics.




From The University of California, Berkeley website Understanding Evolution:

Quote:
Lines of evidence: The science of evolution

At the heart of evolutionary theory is the basic idea that life has existed for billions of years and has changed over time.

Overwhelming evidence supports this fact. Scientists continue to argue about details of evolution, but the question of whether life has a long history or not was answered in the affirmative at least two centuries ago.

The history of living things is documented through multiple lines of evidence that converge to tell the story of life through time ...


The religionist/creationist/ID-ist position is ludicrous, insupportable, self-cancelling (through wholly internally referential rationalization), roundly dismissed by a vast majority of members belonging to the legitimate, accreditted, mainstream scientific and academic communities, and adherence to the fairytale-based cockamamie "Intelligent Design/Creationist Theory" betrays a paucity of intellectual honesty and achievement.

But then, its little wonder supermarket tabloids enjoy greater circulation than do scientific journals, or than do legitimate newspapers and periodicals, for that matter. The market for fiction, while insatiable, is fed quite easily. Non-fiction is a harder crop to grow, tougher to chew, and more work to digest, which, though it is more nourishing, is why it is embraced by a more selective demographic.

As demonstrated, the creationists/ID-ists are the ones given to innaccuracies, prevarications, mischaracterizations, falsehoods, and straw men. Actually, saying rl and ilk "play" the twit is a mischaracterization - they aren't playing.


"Every tree is known by his own fruit." (KJV, Luke 6:44)
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 08:44 am
MICHIGAN UPDATE

Quote:
Bad grade: DeVos should extricate himself from intelligent design mess
(A Lansing State Journal editorial, September 22, 2006)

Dick DeVos isn't grading too well on education policy this week.

He started off well enough, telling the LSJ Editorial Board Tuesday he was pleased with recent efforts to increase state standards for high schools.

Yet, on the very same day, he told the Associated Press of two disturbing beliefs:
• "Intelligent design" should be included in science guidelines.
• He supports leaving local school boards to make decisions on intelligent design.

These are sadly contradictory views; ones that appear to have more of a political basis than an educational one.

First, "intelligent design" is not science. It is an attempt to forge the trappings of scientific inquiry around a fundamental structure of beliefs. It has no business in any science classroom.

Second, by associating a controversial issue such as intelligent design with the issue of local control, DeVos is speaking against his own position in improving state educational standards.

The state Board of Education recently delayed a decision on science curriculum guidelines, apparently over disputes fueled by some Republican legislators on how to teach evolutionary theory.

Now comes DeVos to add to the controversy; a controversy that does not serve Michigan students.

The state has slowly begun to impose stricter standards on what its high school graduates should learn. Decades of local control left some students getting an advanced curricula and some getting curricula that don't prepare them for the 21st century.

Are we going to derail momentum on state standards over the politicization of science?

DeVos said he wouldn't require intelligent design in science classes. He should emphasize that view by arguing design could be included in comparative religion or philosophy classes, where all sorts of creation beliefs could be studied.

But let's keep it out of the science classes.


I like how this editorial characterizes intelligent design: "an attempt to forge the trappings of scientific inquiry around a fundamental structure of beliefs".
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 11:21 am
wande quoted-

Quote:
First, "intelligent design" is not science. It is an attempt to forge the trappings of scientific inquiry around a fundamental structure of beliefs. It has no business in any science classroom.


Maybe wande, science classrooms have no business in schools. Who teaches them anyway? What sort of "scientist" puts up with conditions in schools and peanuts salaries?

It's an affectation you guys have I'm afraid.

Look how you are stepping around my last two posts. Scientists step around nothing. timber has choreographed a fancy dance.

And it's bad manners to boot.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 12:00 pm
spendi, just about whatever it is, many of those who know enough about it to make a living at its practice do so, many of those who don't know enough to practice it but do know enough to discuss it intelligently teach it, and lotsa those who neither do it nor teach it talk about it - whether they know what they're talking about or not.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 12:06 pm
It is an absurdity to suggest that anyone in these fora is constrained by courtesy to answer any other post. This applies even more forcibly in the case of posters who post self-congratulatory and irrelevant drivel in which is displayed for all to see the monumental ignorance that member suffers with regard to the subject under discussion.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2006 12:50 pm
Hey-- this is a good laugh.

Setanta's signature has disappeared. You'll all remember it though.

"Mankind cannot bear very much reality." TS Eliot.

And would you believe it's in the HCE book I mentioned earlier.

Here's the full paragraph-

Take it away Setty-

"Admit the naturalism of a picture postcard and you must soon admit also graffiti on lavatory walls, the blaspheming of jarveys, and what goes on in the back bedrooms of Finn's Hotel. Dubliners was totally naturalistic, and no kind of truth is harmless; as Eliot says, mankind cannot bear very much reality."

And that was about the Dublin printers refusal to print the coy little Dubliners.

Now when it comes to naturalism picture postcards are miles short of Darwin's theory of evolution. And Dubliners is miles short of Ulysses and Finnegan. Light years. The both.

So lets be having some graffiti and blaspheming and tales of what goes on in the back rooms.

What a sad irony. Setanta does the Eliot quote as if the rest of us are fairies atop the wedding cake and he's the reality man,and can bear it, and if we were as natural and real as he was goading us to be with that signature A2K would shut down and now he's disappeared the quote as if it hadn't happened and he's been signing off with it for ages.

And he's preaching naturalism for the school kids and he's proven as prim and proper as a virgin Sunday school teacher of middling years.

As to the most recent absurd homily from Mr Reality the less said the better. It only concerned itself with a little PS to a post. The post being presumably too much and so, as usual, he's jumped on the PS as if it was the last dangling rope above the Saigon rooftop.

"Look out kid, they keep it all hid."
0 Replies
 
 

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