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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 01:38 pm
By the way, Spurious, since you don't seem to get it (how typical), i "pick on" Zimmerman because it is such an easy way to jerk your chain.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 01:42 pm
They say things like that after the event. It's the hindsight brigade. All that history plays tricks.

One can forget we are going forwards with too much of it.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 01:45 pm
How sad for you, Spurious, that you can't see it. You always puke up some of Bobby's drivel as though it were wisdom--i've known for months that the fastest way to get your goat is to slam Zimmerman. Works a treat, too.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 01:53 pm
U.S. CONGRESS UPDATE

Quote:
Legion: Common Sense Prevails in California War Memorial Transfer to Feds
(Christian Newswire, August 16, 2006)

A new federal law passed by Congress and signed by the President that transfers ownership of the Mt. Soledad Veterans Memorial to the United States government was heralded today by the national commander of 2.7 million-member American Legion today as a "victory for common sense."

"We are a nation established on Judeo-Christian principles," Thomas L. Bock said. "We are pleased to see the U.S. Congress and the President walking in the ?'footsteps of the founders' in recognizing the sanctity of this veterans memorial."

In a 2005 referendum, 76 percent of the people of San Diego approved the transfer of the national memorial to federal custody. In a letter to the President last May urging federal acquisition, Bock wrote, "We are particularly concerned in this case that a dangerous precedent could be set that would endanger veterans memorials across America, perhaps even the nine thousand crosses that mark the final resting places of our World War II heroes at Normandy Beach."

On May 3, a San Diego federal judge ordered the city of San Diego to take down the cross within 90 days or face $5,000 in daily fines. Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy blocked that order on July 3 pending a hearing if raised to their level. Meanwhile, the House passed the bill by a 349-74 vote on July 19 and the Senate approved it unanimously Aug. 1 rendering the lawsuits moot.

"We expect more litigation and I assure you that The American Legion will be in the fight," Bock said. "The religious symbols that mark the graves and honor the sacrifices of our fallen heroes - a cross, Star of David, or other identification of faith in God - are sacred to Americans. As a grateful nation, we must ensure that the memory of our heroes will never be dishonored by those who would seek to remove them."

The American Legion is conducting a campaign in support of the Public Expression of Religion Act (PERA), H.R. 2679, in the House of Representatives and S. 3696 in the Senate. The measures would remove the authority for judges to award taxpayer monies in attorneys fees in Establishment Clause cases involving litigation against religious icons and veterans memorials.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 02:18 pm
7/8 Mick 1/8 Jock wrote-

Quote:
i've known for months that the fastest way to get your goat


My "goat" can't be got my dear. Many have tried and been found wanting. And not just with mere words. I haven't the slightest interest what you think about Bob Dylan. Not one slight scorrick in the bottom of the bag the iotas had been emptied out of interest.

I am just setting the record straight for this little corner of history if it survives to tell future generations what we were like in 2006 and hopefully for more years to come. They would get the wrong idea about Bob if your view was the only one that made it through the grinder just like the stuff that has made it from the past has been through a grinder and only some of it came through.

No goat got whatsoever tautologised for emphasis.!!
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 03:16 pm
Are you anti-IDers up against the American Legion?

Gee!!
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Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 03:30 pm
You have a naive and childish view of the practice history, which does not surprise me.

The American Legion are a bunch of fat old dudes, with an agenda for personal financial gain--you would be foolish to rate very high their influence and the respect they command. I was once a member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, but lost interest, as they seemed to be mostly a private drinking club.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 03:32 pm
By the way, i've rarely seen anyone whose goat was so easily gotten--witness the few posts about Bob Zimmerman which had you hysterical in no time.
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 05:23 pm
You're a "The Who" fan Mick. They smashed guitars on the stage in front of people out of frustration that they couldn't make one talk like Bob can.

Did you see what Segovia said after listening to Bob play?

I would bet you're a "Queen" fan too.

They were quite sane. Their lead singer is long gone and he is reported as needing two virgins in a bath full of calf-livers to get it on. He ordered the calf-livers from the abbatoir with the money his fans paid out but I don't know where he got the virgins from.The supplier probably asserted that they were virgins and Zoroastrians are suckers for assertions. And that bloody tash was 'orrible.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 16 Aug, 2006 06:47 pm
Quote:


Did you see what Segovia said after listening to Bob play?




I looked it up , Andres Segovia said
"Bob Dylans music is much better than it sounds"


Spendi's a real car wreck , isnt he? :wink:
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:15 am
fm-

He said a few other things too.

BTW-

There's a few flickerings of the real intelligent design on the Original Writings thread. Trees. Some Emily Bronte with comments from the American lady who resides in rural England. None of that "Creationism by the back door crap".

Setanta wrote-

Quote:
, but lost interest, as they seemed to be mostly a private drinking club.


They are private drinking clubs in order to generate interest. I'm a member of ours although I must admit I'm in arrears with my subs. They do other things besides drink. All sorts of things.Best lunch in our town by miles. They are really for people who like meeting other people and having what we call the "crack". Chewing the fat. Mulling things over. Seeing what's going on. Who's shagging who.

Your lost interest may be your problem but that's no excuse to start calling them names like " a bunch of" greedy "fat old dudes. You are probably only referring to The Committee and trying to smear the membership with their shortcomings.

The membership hasn't stirred yet. They can really yank the chain.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 05:01 am
KANSAS UPDATE

Quote:
Moderates take aim at remaining conservatives on state education board
(By Scott Rothschild, Lawrence Journal-World, August 18, 2006)

Topeka ?- With the August primary election it became clear that moderates will control the State Board of Education next year, but just barely.

So, opponents of the board's remaining conservative incumbents aim to increase their numbers in the November general election.

"We would like to strengthen and solidify the moderate majority on the board," Don Hineman, chairman of the Kansas Alliance for Education, said Thursday.

The political action committee worked during the primary campaigns to remove conservatives from power on the board.

Based on the election results Aug. 1, the conservative 6-4 majority will be reversed to a 6-4 moderate majority when a new board takes office in January.

The current conservative 6-4 majority approved science standards that criticize evolution and sex education standards that make it more difficult for students to take sex ed, and hired Bob Corkins as education commissioner though he had no background in education.

Moderates say they intend to revisit all those issues when the new board is seated.

Five seats were challenged in the primaries, which, because of debates about evolution, drew international attention.

In the Republican Party primary, conservative Connie Morris, of St. Francis, was defeated by moderate Sally Cauble, of Liberal, and moderate Jana Shaver, of Independence, won in southeast Kansas over conservative Brad Patzer, the son-in-law of conservative Iris Van Meter, who didn't seek re-election.

In the Democratic Party primary, moderate incumbent Janet Waugh, of Kansas City, Kan., defeated conservative challenger Jesse Hall.

Conservatives Ken Willard, of Hutchinson, and John Bacon, of Olathe, survived their primaries but face Democrats in the Nov. 7 general election.

Hineman said it would be best for moderates to try to increase their numbers in the general election, too.

The bipartisan alliance has targeted two races, endorsing Democrat Jack Wempe, of Lyons, against Willard and Democrat Don Weiss, of Olathe, against Bacon. The alliance will not get involved in election match-ups that pit Shaver against Democrat Charles Kent Runyan or Cauble against Democrat Tim Cruz because, Hineman said, whoever wins those races will provide a moderate perspective to the board.

In two years, Hineman said, five board seats, including three held by moderates, will be up for grabs, so he would like to pad what will be at least a 6-4 moderate majority in hopes a majority can be held through the 2008 election.

"Those seats will be challenged by the conservatives so we want to do what we can now to increase our numbers," Hineman said.

But Cindy Duckett, a conservative activist from Wichita, predicted Bacon and Willard would withstand the challenges.

"I think John and Ken are really secure," Duckett said.

She said the GOP primary didn't represent an anti-conservative swing.

Morris was weakened by charges of exorbitant travel expenses, while Van Meter's district had no incumbent, she said.

"I'm not sure it is a backlash against conservatives. The primary elections were really about competence," she said.

And she predicted that in 2008, conservatives will retake the board.

"The pendulum will swing in two years," she said.

Bob Beatty, a political science professor at Washburn University, said moderates will have a tough time toppling Willard and Bacon in the general election because much of the attention on the Board of Education races has subsided.

"The national attention is certainly off, so that will not be as big of a campaign factor," Beatty said.

During the primaries, the challengers framed the debate as a board in crisis that needed to be "retaken," he said.

"Now it is retaken," he said, and it will be more difficult to drum up interest in the campaigns.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 06:04 am
We have to define "Moderate". In this case a moderate is one whos not looking to establish a religious state when it comes to science education. Its not necessarily a full political stance. (At least I hope that political conservatism does not include ID as a "package deal") That would be so embarrasing to the many politically conservative scientists who live among us.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 07:22 am
farmerman,

There is a new organization called CAID (Conservatives Against Intelligent Design). They are basically in favor of good science education. Also, they are dismayed by a tendency among some Republicans to promote a religion-based agenda. I think their website is caid.org.
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xingu
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 07:27 am
It's

http://www.caidweb.org/blog/
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 07:52 am
wande wrote-

Quote:
The current conservative 6-4 majority approved science standards that criticize evolution and sex education standards that make it more difficult for students to take sex ed,


This looks much more like anti-ID being "sex education" by the back door as does ID being Creationism by the back door.

If ID and Creationism are based on nothing, as is often said, then anti-ID is nothing too. But "sex education" is real enough and a total disaster when taught by buttoned up prudes which is likely to be the case.

It is much worse than deriving knowledge of sex from actors simulating it and that is bad enough.

One has to wonder why anti-IDers wish to see sex sanitised.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 08:48 am
Xingu and wandel, thanks, Im going to look at the CAID website, perhaps my faith in human intelligence will be validated

However, on the other hand
Quote:
If ID and Creationism are based on nothing, as is often said, then anti-ID is nothing too. But "sex education" is real enough and a total disaster when taught by buttoned up prudes which is likely to be the case.

It is much worse than deriving knowledge of sex from actors simulating it and that is bad enough.

One has to wonder why anti-IDers wish to see sex sanitised.


Whenever spendi talks out his ass like this, I do take a few steps backward in my validation experience.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 08:49 am
We should thank spendi for yet another inexplicably irrelevant post.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 09:02 am
Yes, he often gets on a roll like that. I do worry about his "state of mind"

I went over to the CAID web. I did not kow that William Dembski co=wrote the evolution material in "Godless". Im amazed, with what he added to the inANNities section, even Dembski got it wrong , but perhaps he was spouting to an audience that didnt know the truth about the Piltdown fraud and peppered moths.
I know weve gone way beyond that
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spendius
 
  1  
Fri 18 Aug, 2006 09:39 am
wande wrote-

Quote:
We should thank spendi for yet another inexplicably irrelevant post.


That's ridiculous wande.

You linked anti-ID to sex education not me.

Why don't you try answering the point instead of simply declaring it "irrelevant". Is "sex education" the real agenda as your quote suggested. I didn't write it.

Since when have posts been "irrelevant" when responding to a previous post.

fm- try a bit harder will you please. You don't need to have got out of first grade to be able to think up lines like your "talks out his ass" flippancies.

You must surely be aware that our viewers know by now that it simply means you are stuck for words but retain the urge to find some no matter how pointless.
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