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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 21 Jul, 2006 03:15 pm
She's just making a fuss fm.

Helps fill the newspapers don't ya know.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Sat 22 Jul, 2006 11:01 am
KANSAS UPDATE

Quote:
Same party, different views
(By MELODEE HALL BLOBAUM, The Kansas City Star, July 22, 2006)

Janet Waugh and Jesse Hall say they have a passion for education.

And they agree that skirmishes over evolution, sex education and other issues have distracted the Kansas Board of Education from more important work.

But the two Democrats campaigning for the 1st District seat on the board come down on different sides of those and other issues, and they have pointedly different views of how well public schools are serving children.

Waugh, the incumbent, sees steady progress in student achievement in the four counties she represents.

"For my district, education is the only escape for many children from a life of poverty or crime or, frankly, death at a young age," she said. "I'm passionate about all children being educated."

Hall, however, is alarmed by the dropout rate in the district and across the state and wants schools to focus more on the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic.

"If we can lower the dropout rate, go back and teach the basics, then we'll have a much-improved local economy," he said.

The 1st District includes Leavenworth and Jefferson counties, most of Wyandotte County and the eastern portion of Douglas County, including part of Lawrence.

Once a low-profile body, the 10-member board drew attention in 1999 by downplaying evolution in the state's science standards. Those changes were reversed by a newly elected moderate majority in 2001. But when voters elected a conservative majority in 2004, evolution and science standards became an issue again.

Five board seats are up for election this year. Waugh is the only moderate incumbent facing re-election; the four other seats are held by conservatives.

Waugh touts her experience on the Turner Board of Education. She also has an understanding of the difficulties faced by urban school districts that she said was not shared by her fellow board members.

"Hopefully, I can bring their attention to these challenges and make them recognize that the needs we have may be different than the needs of a rural community," she said.

Hall also brings experience with urban schools. He works for the Kansas City School District, and his children attended Kansas City, Kan., public schools until he and his wife decided to homeschool them.

"I saw the great need of kids not really getting the basics," he said. "I've tutored kids after school for years. And instead of the situation getting better, I saw it getting worse."

Waugh wants the board returned to a moderate point of view and has suggested that all 6-4 decisions made since January 2005 be revisited if it happens.

Among the hot-button decisions since then:

Science standards: Standards approved in November encourage students to look at the theory of evolution and criticism of it, and changes the definition of science from the search for natural explanations to a search for "more adequate" explanations.

The standards did not reflect the majority view of the 26-member standard-writing committee.

Critics say the standards include intelligent design terminology and many of its arguments against evolution.

Hall supports the standards, saying that they do not specifically advocate teaching creationism or intelligent design.

Waugh voted against the revisions. She says the state should adopt standards that are accepted by the mainstream science community as good science.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 22 Jul, 2006 12:46 pm
From wandel's post:
"Hall, however, is alarmed by the dropout rate in the district and across the state and wants schools to focus more on the basics of reading, writing and arithmetic."


It's the same here in California. School districts that are showing improvement in overall scores also have high drop out rates from blacks and Hispanics. No Child Left Behind is a joke and a travesty.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 22 Jul, 2006 02:34 pm
wande-

How many times more are you going to take us around that load of mush?

Do you seriously think that Janet and Jesse know anything more than average, which isn't asking a lot, about educating millions of children, about science or about religion.

They only know what they want for themselves which is principally to get into a position where they can shove people around, attend the banquets and booze-ups and have their names and faces, expensively prettied up no doubt, in public view and be respected by their peers and those lower down the social scale.

If I was a kid in their domain I wouldn't just drop out. I would head for the hills. I would be happy to be "left behind".

They just go on and on. They are not even aware that they wouldn't wish to know anything about science or religion if they actually found out about them.


What happened to my post about the symbolism enshrined in the words Los Angeles. That's an aspect of the psuedomorphosis like the cross on the stationary?

No answers offered on that.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 22 Jul, 2006 07:12 pm
spendi
Quote:
What happened to my post about the symbolism enshrined in the words Los Angeles. That's an aspect of the psuedomorphosis like the cross on the stationary?
. If it doesnt move then how could we have seen it?.

You critique those who wish to affect some change in their ed systems, but it sounds more like you want to be in there with your own ideas? neh? Or do you only wish to be getting your share of free food and booze?

I have no idea from what orifice you drag your views.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 23 Jul, 2006 07:05 am
I thought you knew fm. You have said a few times which orifice my humble contributions to this debate are extruded from.

And now you have "no idea".

So the other stuff wasn't a scientific fact after all.

But it seems odd to go to the trouble of quoting a question of mine and then not answering it as nobody did when it was first asked.

Quote:
You critique those who wish to affect some change in their ed systems, but it sounds more like you want to be in there with your own ideas? neh? Or do you only wish to be getting your share of free food and booze?


Neh!. I leave the educational system to the Archbishop and food and booze are already, to all intents and purposes, free. And the idea of going to banquets in the company of Janet and Jesse is not the sort of thing on which I spend my precious time. I suppose I ought to really because my weakness hands them the power.

One thing I do feel sure about though is that some changes seem to be needed.

Maybe you should read Richard Crossman's Diaries and get an angle on the Janets and Jesses of this world.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 08:23 am
KANSAS UPDATE

Quote:
Public school science standards a key issue
(By Tim Vandenack, The Hutchinson News, July 24, 2006)

One of the hottest topics the Kansas Board of Education has tackled of late - and a key issue in the contests for the open seats on the body - is science standards for the state's public schools.

The six conservatives on the 10-member body adopted revisions to the standards in December, inserting new critiques and question marks about evolution that they say make study of the topic more objective.

Many, however, blast the revisions as misleading and an underhanded attempt to allow creationist-friendly concepts like intelligent design into science classrooms. Intelligent design posits that some aspects of nature are so complicated that an "intelligent cause," which critics equate with God, must have had a hand.

Broadly, John Calvert of the Shawnee Mission-based Intelligent Design Network said the revisions introduce students to apparent question marks related to random mutation and natural selection as the motors behind all biodiversity.

"That's where the huge controversy is," said Calvert, who backs the changes.

More specifically, the changes:
•Say extrapolating microevolution, change within a species, to explain macroevolution, the development of new species, "is controversial."
•Say the view that all living things descended from a common ancestor "has been challenged" by molecular evidence and fossil records.
•And expose students to criticism about theories about the origin of the first specs of life.

More subtly, Calvert said the changes help dispel evolution as a stand-alone "origin story" of life bolstering nontheistic belief systems like atheism and agnosticism to the detriment of traditional theistic religions.

The changes, he says, "mean we won't be indoctrinating students one way or another."

On the other side of the spectrum, critics decry the changes as unneeded and deceiving.

"The idea that evolution is a theory in crisis is nonsense," said Jack Krebs of Kansas Citizens for Science, which opposes the revisions. Noting what he called overwhelming acceptance of evolution in the scientific community, he said the changes "create doubt that really isn't out there."

Scientists are constantly delving into the apparent question marks pointed out by the new standards, Krebs said, "but it's not calling evolution into question, it's deepening our understanding of evolution." What's more, he said the notion that evolution precludes the possibility of theistic religion is incorrect, noting the range of creeds represented by his group's members.

More specifically, Krebs pointed to the wordage of the changes, which he said mimics intelligent design tomes, as evidence that the revisions aim to bolster that notion.

He also said the new definition of science in the revised standards paves the way to "supernatural" explanations of happenings in the world. The old definition described science as "seeking natural explanations ... in the world around us" while the new one defines science as searching for "more adequate explanations of natural phenomena."

"A small change of words has really got a great big important story behind it," Krebs said, blasting the "slippery language" of the revisions.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 01:04 pm
After that sludge of amateurish over-simplification this might test your patience.

Chap 11 of Decline of the West is "Meaning of Numbers".

Spengler is discoursing on the "longing" of the child and of primitive mankind which is set up in a sense of direction and coalesces in maturity around the "enigma of Time" ---"queer,tempting,insoluble."

"Suddenly,the words "past" and "future" have acquired a fateful meaning."

Here we go-pin your ears back!

"But this longing which wells out of the bliss of the inner life is also, in the intimate essence of every soul, a DREAD as well. As all becoming moves towards a having-become wherein it ENDS, so the prime feeling of becoming--the longing--touches the prime feeling of having-become, the dread. In the present we feel a trickling away, the past implies a passing. Here is the root of our eternal dread of the irrevocable, the attained, the final--our dread of mortality, of the world itself as a thing-become, where death is set as a frontier like birth--our dread in the momemt when the possible is actualized, the life is inwardly fulfilled and consciousness stands at its GOAL. It is the deep world fear of the child--which never leaves the higher man, the believer, the poet, the artist--that makes him so infinitely lonely in the presence of the alien powers that loom, threatening in the dawn, behind the screen of sense-phenomena.
The element of direction, too, which is inherent in all 'becoming', is felt owing to its inexorable irreversibility to be something alien and hostile, and the human will-to-understanding ever seeks to bind the inscrutable by the spell of a name. It is something beyond comprehension, this transformation of future into past, and thus time, in its contrast to space, has always a queer, baffling, oppressive ambiguity from which no serious man can wholly protect himself."

"This world fear is assuredly the most CREATIVE of all prime feelings. Man owes to it the ripest and deepest forms and images, not only of his conscious inward life, but also the infinitely varied external culture which reflects this life. Like a secret melody that not every ear can perceive, it runs through the form-language of every true art-work, every inward philosophy, every important deed, and, although those who can perceive it in that domain are the very few, it lies at the root of the great problems of mathematics. Only the spiritually dead man of the autumnal cities--Hammurabi's Babylon, Ptolemaic Alexandria, Islamic Baghdad, Paris and Berlin today--only the pure intellectual, the sophist, the sensualist, the Darwinian, loses it or is able to evade it by setting up a secretless 'scientific world-view' between himself and the alien."

The way these people talk in wande's quotes suggests that the kids are simply objects without feelings whose unhappy function is to be the playthings of their out-of-control blundering and irresponsible egos.

As a flat out "dead man" I do at least see the IDer's point of view.

"Deep in my heart Babe
I know there's no help I can bring."

To Ramona --Bob Dylan. (Another dead man).

What comfort can a "secretless scientific world-view" provide for the ordinary average kid?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 02:22 pm
jeysus k rist spendi

bob dylan
mysoginy
anti darwinism

please give us a new note.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 04:37 pm
Spendi is able to hone is skills if he doesnt reach for too many. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 05:10 pm
I just love ol' Oswald. He cracks me up.

Is he funny or is he funeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?

I loved the-

Quote:
the Darwinian, loses it or is able to evade it by setting up a secretless 'scientific world-view' between himself and the alien."
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 05:11 pm
Exactly how are judges appointed in the US?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 05:20 pm
Somewhat similar to how you pick your friends at the pub, but a little more refined.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 05:33 pm
By that I presume you mean by their proximity rather than any other,and fancier,weeding process such as making sure they don't wear their underpants on the outside of their trousers.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 05:58 pm
That about covers it.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 06:16 pm
And Dover confirmed it.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 24 Jul, 2006 06:39 pm
You do remember Bush's nomination of Julie Myers for a top government secretary, and we all know about Mr Brown and FEMA.

Roberts was one of Bush's better nominations, but he probably got 10,000 suggestions on this one before screwing up again - royally..
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 08:38 am
KANSAS UPDATE

Quote:
Conservatives may be tough to shake off
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 09:07 am
wandeljw wrote:
KANSAS UPDATE

Quote:
Conservatives may be tough to shake off
(By Dave Ranney, Lawrence Journal-World, July 25, 2006)

..."I don't think we're going to lose any seats," she said. "As we've seen before, I think conservative voters are motivated; moderates aren't."
And why is that?

"Where do conservatives gather?" Duckett said. "They gather in church. They meet, they talk, they get motivated. Now, where do moderates meet?"

She paused.

"That's just it," Duckett said. "They don't. They may go to church, but they're not motivated by church."


Perhaps the IRS needs to spend more time visiting certain churches in Kansas.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 25 Jul, 2006 09:23 am
wande quoted-

Quote:
Conservatives may be tough to shake off


A good example of flat-ribbed litotes.

Quote:
And if that weren't enough,


jars my sensibilities.

I would definitely vote for Connie if I had the chance. Any lady who spends $339 a night for accomodation must have a refined taste and I'm rather partial to ladies who display such seemly dignity and feel that to be represented by such a lady is a privilege.

Our lovely Queen is currently on a birthday cruise around the beautiful Western islands in a hired ship and nobody is thinking of voting her out and I daresay that is costing £10,000 a night,at least.

When "moderates", who ride on public transport (shudder-shudder), hold sway it is time to fly the coop.
0 Replies
 
 

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