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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 17 Jul, 2006 09:59 am
spendi, Your attempts at sophistry fails, because your primary thesis fails. Once you understand that, your posts might grow out of the doldrums. When you are coherent, your writing skills are way above average for pub feeders.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:12 am
wande wrote-

Quote:
However, if the phrase had been "ballooning bag of bullshit" would it be even more stylish (alliteration)?


It might to some. As fm says, aliteration for it's own sake is a bit naff and thus common and the opposite of style.

Maybe I oughtn't to have mentioned the child's balloon but it was tempting despite my being aware of the fact that an expanding load of bullshit is hardly likely, though theoretically possible I suppose,to have a clean interface between itself, assuming one can define the "it",and the space into which it is ballooning. I was aware of the problem of the bag. And remain so. But it lead to a neat political point I thought so it was worth it and I'm glad my sneaky trick didn't get past your critical gaze.

And bag is a trifle cliched when applied to **** whereas a ballooning load seemed fresh to me. And cliche is common as well as it has no development potential.

Litotes being limitless in that regard as far as I can judge.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:46 am
I can get you up a report into the Bush/Blair conversation with the microphone on when they thought is was off. If you want.
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spendius
 
  1  
Mon 17 Jul, 2006 10:55 am
There's a neat example of aliteration on page 258 of the "Oh my God! Will this silliness never end" thread on Trivia and Word Games.

And by an English Rose, a species at its best in this glorious weather we are getting at this time.

With a touch of litotes to add to its charm.
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jul, 2006 12:36 pm
I came across this earlier-

Quote:
Reviewer: Kurt A. Johnson (Marseilles, Illinois, USA)

The Decline of the West is the magnum opus of Oswald Spengler (1880-1936), a German historian and philosopher. In it, Spengler rejects the idea that the future of the West (or indeed of any culture) is an open-ended advance from the primitive past to an ever more glorious and expansive future. Instead, cultures (including the West) experience an almost organic history of Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter.
According to Spengler, the West moved out of its Summer period with the dawn of the nineteenth century, and into a Civilization phase. This phase is dominated by mega-cities, and money and atheism come into ascendance. And what lies in the future? Caesarism, and a long period of stagnation in the arts and sciences.

Now, the above summary is inevitably bound to be overly simplistic, even to the point of being misleading. The Decline of the West was originally published as two books, and it is a deep and erudite philosophical look at the history of the world, so any small summary is bound to be insufficient to do it justice.

Having heard this work referenced so many times, I decided to read it for myself. In fact, though it does present a deterministic view of history, it does not propose a West that is about to collapse and be swept into the dustbin of history (as some people want it to). In fact, this is a cogent, penetrating look at history, which certainly seems to accurately predict how the West has developed from the first book's initial publication in 1918.

Now, I must admit that like many scholarly books of the era, this one has a dense, thickly argued text that makes for some very heavy reading indeed. But, if you are willing to devote time to the reading of this book, and more time to digest what it has to say, you will be rewarded with one of the fascinating and thought-provoking look at the modern West. Are we at the End of History, or the end of the West? Read this book and find out.


It sure isn't like reading anything ordinary.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jul, 2006 01:20 pm
Youre opening the door of quantitative history there spendi, but you seem to be stuck on the first case you encounter. Gibbon and later Spengler were cyclic model proponents. I like Karl Popper better, makes for more of a less deterministic and more of a subject that relies on multivariate analyis.

"Whatever the ride, may we live in interesting times" -Jerry Garcia
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jul, 2006 02:31 pm
"May you live in interesting times." Ancient Chinese curse.

I wouldn't compare Gibbon to Spengler. Spengler triple digs in order to grow show specimens. Gibbon doesn't get a mention in Decline of the West. Gibbon knew nothing about art. After reading Gibbon I hardly ever go back to it. Spengler is always at my side and open and with bookmarks sticking out of it all over with little notes written on.

Gibbon never wipes a synapse clean and fills it up again. But a very nice user of English and he gives a general outline of some of the things that went on during the period he covers. Too megalopolitan for me. I like country stuff.

I don't know Popper at all. He sounds like a flash in the pan so city types probably thrum to his tunes. I've always been on the other side to those who rate him. He can't write though. I've seen enough to know that.

I did get three or four really big lessons out of Gibbon and I like any book that provides just one. That's when you are told you are wrong about something by someone who provides the sort of evidence that you can see with your eyes once you're shown where to look.

Did you notice the juxta of mega-cities, money and atheism?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jul, 2006 02:49 pm
spendi wrote:
I did get three or four really big lessons out of Gibbon and I like any book that provides just one. That's when you are told you are wrong about something by someone who provides the sort of evidence that you can see with your eyes once you're shown where to look.

Hard to believe, spendi, considering all the evidence provided by other posters to your opinions on several subjects.
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jul, 2006 03:32 pm
Well they are invariably people who are stuck with the first lesson and who avoid anybody who challenges it and they end up not knowing where to look for the evidence proving it's all bullshit.

You know how Constable painted those lovely scenes for his patron especially to please him well Andy Warhol painted the landscape for his mega-city, money-mad atheistic patrons in the style that suited them.

But if him going to Mass every week is not enough to see his contempt then take a butchers at his late self portraits looking straight at you.

The meek will inherit the earth. City folk can't do without peasants. They would have to grow their own food for feewkesake. City folks come and go. The sun only has only so much energy per acre. Peasants shed city folks like snakes shed their skins.

Why would city folks wish to turn peasants into city folks who would rather be lawyers than grow the food. That's a bit like trying to bite your own head off.

And every TV programme and newspaper you have seen is city stuff even when patronising the country as they do. And everything else. They drool at a big disaster. You can see it dribbling down the chin of their gluttonous egos. Oh for a Veblen or a JK Galbraith to give us the low down on Lebanon.

No c.i. I'm not bothered what city folks say. Buy one get one free. There used to be a law against offering bargains. It's revolutionary.

But-when in Rome eh?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jul, 2006 04:32 pm
spendi, when you make conversational soup, you shouldnt throw nails in the mix.
I know youre obsessed with Spengler, I just wanted to remind you that you seem to merely latch on to one writers bag of tricks and forget those whove gone before from which some of the original credit is due. Gibbon , before Spengler and thought of it first. He's allowed some literary gaffae just like you forgive me my spelling and I forgive you your "pereachanappleraspenerry"style .
Quantitative History is an interesting bit of divert when all you have are three writers and Bob Dylan
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jul, 2006 04:46 pm
farmerman wrote:
"...when all you have are three writers and Bob Dylan."


That was a knee slapper worth a hearty laugh!
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spendius
 
  1  
Tue 18 Jul, 2006 05:22 pm
Three!!!!!

Three????

Nah- there's a lot more than that. Frank Harris for a start. And what a start. If you didn't start with Frank you started from the wrong place.

Bob once said- "The key is Frank".

When I first saw that I thought to myself that there goes a wise man.

Henry Miller measured Frank up for a suit once.

I bet you didn't know that.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 20 Jul, 2006 04:55 am
KANSAS UPDATE

Quote:
Chaos reigns at board
(Bob Sigman, Jackson County Sun, July 20, 2006)

The autocratic, arbitrary conduct of the 6-4 ultraconservative majority on the Kansas Board of Education rolls on, leaving astounded Kansans wondering what is next on the Christian coalition agenda.

"Every month it gets worse and a little more chaotic," exclaimed Sue Gamble, Shawnee, referring to the meetings of the 10-member group that is elected to oversee K-12 education in Kansas.


Gamble, whose board district is mostly in Johnson County, is an avowed opponent of the six-member majority of right-wingers who control the board. And she knows her way around public service, having served on the Shawnee Mission school board and in other leadership capacities over the years.


So she is drawing on her experience when she observed, in an interview this week, that there is confusion among Department of Education staff regarding "just exactly what they should be doing."

It is no coincidence, she pointed out, that turnover in the Education Department has doubled in the last year, from about 10 percent to 20 percent. That means employees with expertise and understanding are leaving and the ones who follow are stepping into a muddled work place.


Gamble said 47 of the 53 who left resigned and six retired, an indication that most of the employees who departed did not want to stay there, preferring to seek work in other places.


Many of them will not say, officially or in public, why they no longer want to be employed at the department. But in private, Gamble said, they share their feelings about dissatisfaction with the unsettled conditions, including the leadership of Bob Corkins, the education commissioner who was handpicked by the 6-4 conservative majority last year.


His selection, Gamble recalled, was a "fiasco," in which the conservatives abandoned conventional hiring procedures. During the course of the selection their antics prompted a national education group, which was retained to assist the board, to withdraw.


The conservatives then proceeded to name Corkins, a known critic of public education without professional experience in the field.


Since then the conservative majority and Corkins have acted on major issues without the knowledge of moderates on the board. As recently as last week a pamphlet on evolution, intended for widespread circulation across the state, was presented to the board as a finished product.


Gamble said she was "blindsided" by the publication, which she said contains misleading information about the teaching of evolution and intelligent design. Gamble was not the only one bothered by the pamphlet.


Jack Krebs, president of Kansas Citizens for Science, a nonprofit statewide group that favors the traditional instruction of evolution, criticized the pamphlet in a news release and interview this week. He said the slickly produced pamphlet appears to be "campaign material printed at state expense."


Krebs is a member of the committee that drafted the first version of the evolution-related science standards, which was rejected by the conservative board majority. He pointed out in some detail how the pamphlet is deceptive about the role of intelligent design in the standards.


Steve Case, chair of the writing committee, said in the news release that misstatements in the pamphlet are similar to the "science hearings" staged by the conservative majority.


"The board spent $30,000 of taxpayer money on these hearings in an outrageous display of pseudoscience and misinformation," Case asserted.


Gamble cited other examples of questionable action by the right-wingers.


All of this is alarming. With their policies on issues such as evolution instruction and sex education, the right-wing-dominated board is inflicting its narrow, religious-based notions on the education of Kansas children.


Some, not all, Johnson County voters can help turn out the destructive conservative board members. John W. Bacon, Olathe, is a member of the 6-4 conservative majority who should be denied a new term. He is opposed in the 3rd District Republican primary by Harry E. McDonald, Olathe.


A vote for McDonald is a step toward a more rational, well-motivated Board of Education.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Jul, 2006 05:30 am
wande-

Who owns the Jackson County Sun?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 20 Jul, 2006 05:35 am
While I concur with the sentiment. I found the article youve just quoted to be almost an "op ed" or a "letter to the editor". The very end is a mere position statement of how the 6-4 maority can be reversed.
Was this a letter to the paper? If not, it seems to go beyond a certain limit for good journalism.
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Jul, 2006 06:10 am
Out the other side actually.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 20 Jul, 2006 07:06 am
farmerman: the article is an "editorial opinion" piece. the writer is an editor for that newspaper.

spendi: court records show that the major owner of that newspaper is...........bob dylan!
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spendius
 
  1  
Thu 20 Jul, 2006 07:23 am
Wow!!!

Are you sure??

He must have won it in a card game.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Thu 20 Jul, 2006 07:51 am
wandeljw wrote:
spendi: court records show that the major owner of that newspaper is...........bob dylan!

Laughing
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farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 20 Jul, 2006 08:24 am
Ah , so it was an op ed. It tried o come off as news at first. Maybe thats Bob's way of sneaking messages on the board.
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