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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 10 Aug, 2005 06:28 pm
Dunno. Sent by a friend.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 10 Aug, 2005 06:34 pm
georgeob
Quote:
If science is taught in a way that presupposes the multiverse option and excludes a creator then I'm sure you will agree it is going beyond its appointed limits. Same goes for the alternative. My point was that many here implicitly accept one excess, while excluding the other. This is illogical and unscientifisc behavior.

Not so fast keemosaabee.
There is evidence , data, and fact that supports the " spontaneous organization of polymers out of nothing" hypothesis. AND, all evidence of a "post origin" time, heavily supports a generation of self relicating molecules being the origin of life. THAT you cannot deny. All the hypothesis of multiverse dynamics, and n dimensional space, are, at present "MATHTURBATION" (I stole that from sozobe's husband, whos a physicist). That means zip evidence. Please dont equate the two proposals. Youre engaging in an "assigned credibility" argument.
That is, my proposal is no more untrue than is yours"
Unfrtunately , all the models of a post "creation" world, fit an evolutionary model in reverse time.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2005 02:21 am
Now, now, Ginril, don't confuse the issue with cogent observations just when the boy is gettin' up to speed with his snake oil pitch . . .
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g day
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2005 07:40 am
M-theory (which may explain more of our reality and what came before the Big Bang) is so far at too early stages to have much predictive powers. Theoretical physicists can barely start to map its topology, let alone understand its dimensions, their properties, interactions and laws.

This may goes far beyond the complexity of quantum mechanics (which is saying alot more than anyone can imagine), so you have to give it some time.

The LHC witihn 2 years might get us to the start of the heirarchy problem, where we can see energy dissappearing into other dimensions (or not) confirm s-particles (or not) confirms the mass of the Higgs boson (or not). Working this stuff out is the very definition of diabolically challenging and complex.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2005 01:20 pm
Quote:
Evolution Is Only Theory of Life's Origins Included in Draft of Science NAEP
(Sean Cavanagh, Education Week, August 10, 2005)
While debates over so-called alternatives to evolution play out across the country, those controversial concepts have not found a place so far in the science portion of the influential test known as "the nation's report card."
The board that sets policy for that test, the National Assessment of Educational Progress, was presented Aug. 5 with a draft of the framework that will act as a basis for a revised version of the science exam.
That draft document offers a thorough treatment of Charles Darwin's widely accepted scientific theory of evolution, and references its core principles, such as natural selection, common descent, and mutation, as a basis for testing students at the 12th grade level. It makes no mention of alternatives meant to challenge that theory, such as creationism, or "intelligent design," the controversial concept that the natural world, including the origins of human life, may have been guided by an unnamed, possibly supernatural creator. That concept is being pushed by school officials in several states, mostly notably in Dover, Pa.
"Evolution is the consequence of natural selection and differential reproduction," the draft NAEP science framework says. "Natural selection and common descent provide the scientific explanation for the history of life on Earth as depicted in the fossil record, as indicated by chemical similarities, and as evidence within the diversity of living organisms."
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 11 Aug, 2005 02:19 pm
It would indeed be interesting to see how they test for ID. The only right answer would be "a creator."
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 16 Aug, 2005 12:45 pm
The revised Kansas science standards would now require high school students to be made aware of criticisms of evolutionary theory. Below is a summary of the propsed revisions:
Quote:
Increases student understanding about biological evolution by informing them of the following:
a. The theory "postulates an unguided natural process that has no discernable direction or goal."
b. "The view that living things in all the major kingdoms are modified descendants of a common ancestor (described in the pattern of a branching tree) has been challenged in recent years by (i) discrepancies in the molecular evidence, (ii) a fossil record that is not consistent with gradual increases in complexity, and (iii) studies that show that animals follow different rather than identical early stages of embryological development.
c. "New heritable traits may result from new combinations of genes and from random mutations or changes in the reproductive cells. Except in very rare cases, mutations that may be inherited are neutral, deleterious or fatal."
d. "Whether microevolution (change within a species) can be extrapolated to explain macroevolutionary changes (such as new complex organs or body plans and new biochemical systems which appear irreducibly complex) is controversial."
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 Aug, 2005 03:04 pm
I used to have high regards for the people I've met from Kansas. I suspect that respect will change as they come out with ID as their foundation for their knowledge about our environment.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Tue 16 Aug, 2005 03:09 pm
c.i.,
at least the kansas science educators do not agree with kansas politicians.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 Aug, 2005 04:15 pm
Too bad the educators don't have any political influence. It's the children that pays dearly for politician's ignorance - but I repeat myself.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 19 Aug, 2005 03:40 am
Why I love the Onion, part MDCCCVXIII:

The Onion wrote:
Evangelical Scientists Now Refute Gravity With New `Intelligent Falling' Theory

http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2
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farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 19 Aug, 2005 04:54 am
Doyle Rudland, the sonorous voiced announcer of Onion radio spots, gave an abbreviated version of this last week. Funny stuff.
There was also one a few months back (I believe it was the Onion) , on Continental Drip.
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 19 Aug, 2005 06:48 am
farmerman,

What do you think of the "teach the controversy" approach that has been proposed in Kansas?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 19 Aug, 2005 10:08 am
We should all know by now that the creationists use god as the answer to all the unknowns to human knowledge. It certainly isn't "sicence" by any stretch.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 19 Aug, 2005 10:18 am
wandeljw wrote:
What do you think of the "teach the controversy" approach that has been proposed in Kansas?

You didn't ask me, but I think as a matter of principle, it's a steaming pile of bull manure, since there is no scientific controversy to teach. As a matter of practice though, pupils cannot be taught early enough to mistrust everything their teacher says, and to check things out for themselves. The best thing I can say about this virus is that it may serve as an intellectual vaccine for Kansas high school students. If it only just didn't stink so bad.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Fri 19 Aug, 2005 10:41 am
Thomas
Thomas wrote:
wandeljw wrote:
What do you think of the "teach the controversy" approach that has been proposed in Kansas?

You didn't ask me, but I think as a matter of principle, it's a steaming pile of bull manure, since there is no scientific controversy to teach. As a matter of practice though, pupils cannot be taught early enough to mistrust everything their teacher says, and to check things out for themselves. The best thing I can say about this virus is that it may serve as an intellectual vaccine for Kansas high school students. If it only just didn't stink so bad.


Why do you suppose that the so-called "intelligent design" supporters' intelligence hasn't improved? Do you suppose their intelligence wasn't effected by evolution? Was their intelligence designer a doofus?

BBB
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wandeljw
 
  1  
Fri 19 Aug, 2005 10:43 am
Thomas,
I am afraid students will get a distorted view of science if they are taught a controversy that doesn't exist among professional scientists.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 19 Aug, 2005 10:50 am
wandel, That's the crux of the problem; they're harming the educaiton of their own children and all the others who have no religious belief. They're making every effort to teach all children religion through the back door.
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adeleg
 
  1  
Sun 21 Aug, 2005 01:18 am
teaching intelligent design theory
Quote:
"I am afraid students will get a distorted view of science if they are taught a controversy that doesn't exist among professional scientists"


If controversy doesn't exist among professional scientists, it is extremely worrying. It seems that ever since Darwin introduced the idea of evolution, scientists have been determined to grasp onto the minute possibility that the existence of life on earth could have nothing to do with God, even if this means blinding themselves to the major and irreconcilable flaws in the theory. Blind acceptance of the theory by scientists does not validate it, instead it indicates that the education system, both at a secondary and a tertiary level, are teaching unproven theories as fact. I saw a post before which said that intelligent design theory needs to be proven before it is taught. What a joke, since when has evolution been proven. It is just a theory, nothing more. Students have the right to know that the theory of evolution has holes in it, and that there are other alternatives. Science has been dominated for too long by secularist educators who think that being objective in education is teaching only theories that don't involve the possibility of the existence of God. At least present the students with both sides of the story and let them decide.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Sun 21 Aug, 2005 01:44 am
Does intelligent design assume the existence of God?
0 Replies
 
 

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