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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Milfmaster9
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 04:52 pm
Well from a bible bashing point of view, hasn't religion caused more death and strife than evolution? (not counting mass extinctions?)

I still can't get over why God would bother making dinosaurs...

Quote:
Famous remarks are very seldom quoted correctly.
Simeon Strunsky (1879 - 1948), No Mean City (1944)


and...

Quote:
Misquotations are the only quotations that are never misquoted.
Hesketh Pearson


and for the horrendous pun...

Quote:
Hanging is too good for a man who makes puns; he should be drawn and quoted.
Fred Allen (1894 - 1956)


All curiosity of http://www.quotationspage.com....
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 05:16 pm
Wolf wrote-

Quote:
Choose any assertion you feel the most comfortable defending.


As I never make assertions without defending them I have no idea what you are on about. You said I needed to defend my assertions.Not me.
Tell me one of the ones you think I haven't defended and,after apologising for it,I will have a go at defending it.

It isn't my initiative Wolf-it's yours. Any fool can blurt out that I make assertions I can't defend-that's easy.If it wasn't easy fools couldn't do it.

You choose. It's your game.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 05:22 pm
How's about that Evolution will bring about an eugenic society governed by the Laws of Natural Selection? You know, an almost Nazi society?
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 05:38 pm
I'll add this one too, about your claim that teaching of evolution is "unnecessary"?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 05:42 pm
wolf said, and I cannot believe it
Quote:
How's about that Evolution will bring about an eugenic society governed by the Laws of Natural Selection?
. This is an oxymoronic statement, did you say this?
Even in my drug addled state, Du kanst nich mich verkaufen.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 05:49 pm
Maybe he meant that Spendi said it? You doing OK post-op?
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spendius
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 05:59 pm
Wolf wrote-

Quote:
How's about that Evolution will bring about an eugenic society governed by the Laws of Natural Selection? You know, an almost Nazi society?


First off I don't think I have said that but now you have I think you need to explain exactly how it wouldn't do. I think it is perfectly obvious that it would.

I hardly think this debate would be going on otherwise. One couldn't see the point of opposing scientific truth if there was no risk of any potential downside in accepting it.

And it might be as well if you didn't think that a eugenic society or even a Nazi one is the worst evil.

How about the Chinese cornering the market in cheap organ transplants for a rich and ageing West simply by executing people for more and more minor offences which their media has conditioned the population into thinking are beyond the pale,like speeding,now that bargain flights to China are bookable at you local travel agents and the process of carrying them out,being similar to changing a carburettor,is easily learned at night school and videos of the successes are being beamed around the world and the Western way costing a flipping fortune.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 06:00 pm
CHUMLY__yup, enjoyed a meal of a meatlike substance covered in a salty brown congealed "sauce" made of chopped up something else. Along side were some bits of steamed red carrot-like substance and a whipped pudding for dessert . No coffee,(they said it could upset mystomach) so there was a gingerolic-ale with 2 ice cubes.
Hospital food has apparently not kept up with all the recent medical breakthroughs.

The new anesthesias are side-effect free. I usually puke after coming to, not so today. I woke up about 3 hours after being done and , although feeling a bit groggy, it wore off sfter they gave me some liquid stuff to help the anesthesia after effects. I believe it may have been some chelation agent . Im curious cause it really worked and Im wondering whether this stuff can be used for pets after surgery. LAst time we had a cat put under just so they could trim her, the damn cat was loopy for a couple of days.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 06:04 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
wolf said, and I cannot believe it Quote:
How's about that Evolution will bring about an eugenic society governed by the Laws of Natural Selection?
. This is an oxymoronic statement, did you say this?
Even in my drug addled state, Du kanst nich mich verkaufen.


I didn't notice that fm.

What are you on? Maybe I should try it.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 06:08 pm
spendi, who I can believe saying this, said
Quote:
How about the Chinese cornering the market in cheap organ transplants for a rich and ageing West simply by executing people for more and more minor offences which their media has conditioned the population into thinking are beyond the pale,like speeding,now that bargain flights to China are bookable at you local travel agents and the process of carrying them out,being similar to changing a carburettor,is easily learned at night school and videos of the successes are being beamed around the world and the Western way costing a flipping fortune.

This , of course , is NOT natural selection,but I do enjoy your"outside the box" way of thinking.Somehow, tonight, its making perfect sense.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 06:10 pm
fm-

You know when she puts the needle in and says "count to ten" and you are gazing into her eyes, did you fall in love before 4 or after.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 06:15 pm
farmerman wrote:
CHUMLY__yup, enjoyed a meal of a meatlike substance covered in a salty brown congealed "sauce" made of chopped up something else. Along side were some bits of steamed red carrot-like substance and a whipped pudding for dessert . No coffee,(they said it could upset mystomach) so there was a gingerolic-ale with 2 ice cubes.
Hospital food has apparently not kept up with all the recent medical breakthroughs.

The new anesthesias are side-effect free. I usually puke after coming to, not so today. I woke up about 3 hours after being done and , although feeling a bit groggy, it wore off sfter they gave me some liquid stuff to help the anesthesia after effects. I believe it may have been some chelation agent . Im curious cause it really worked and Im wondering whether this stuff can be used for pets after surgery. LAst time we had a cat put under just so they could trim her, the damn cat was loopy for a couple of days.
Good to hear your humor is intact and all else is at least nominal!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 06:20 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
This , of course , is NOT natural selection


Nor is trimming a cat.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Wed 3 May, 2006 06:34 pm
Spendi, don't defer... incur!
spendius wrote:
The unnecessary and provocative teaching of evolution theory...........
Chumly wrote:
I'll add this one too, about your claim that teaching of evolution is "unnecessary."?
Boyo, you have failed to substantiate the claim that teaching of evolution is "accidental, additional, avoidable, casual, causeless, chance, dispensable, excess, exorbitant, expendable, extraneous, extrinsic, fortuitous, futile, gratuitous, haphazard, inessential, irrelevant, lavish, needless, noncompulsory, nonessential, optional, prodigal, profuse, random, redundant, supererogatory, superfluous, surplus, uncalled-for, uncritical, undesirable, unessential, unneeded, unrequired, useless, wanton, worthless". unnecessary
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Thu 4 May, 2006 05:10 am
spendius wrote:
First off I don't think I have said that but now you have I think you need to explain exactly how it wouldn't do. I think it is perfectly obvious that it would.


I remember you saying something similar to it during that "you darned Essdeeoids" phase you had, but of course you know how much of a nightmare it is to trawl through all these 500 plus posts in order to find the exact thing.

What you said was more along the lines of teaching of Evolution is contradictory to religious values, so you'll get smart arse kids believing in Evolution and not religious values and they will be the Eugenecists.

Quote:
And it might be as well if you didn't think that a eugenic society or even a Nazi one is the worst evil.


So, you are saying that because most Evolution-supporters think such a society is evil, then such a fear wouldn't happen?

Quote:
How about the Chinese cornering the market in cheap organ transplants for a rich and ageing West simply by executing people for more and more minor offences which their media has conditioned the population into thinking are beyond the pale,like speeding,now that bargain flights to China are bookable at you local travel agents and the process of carrying them out,being similar to changing a carburettor,is easily learned at night school and videos of the successes are being beamed around the world and the Western way costing a flipping fortune.


That is the longest sentence I've ever read... well, actually no. John Prescott managed to beat you to the punch, but...

Well, that doesn't really prove anything does it?

No real proof. No meat to the assertion. Speaking of which... lunchtime! I'm have a cheese and Branston pickle sandwich. Tasty, yet horribly unhealthy.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 4 May, 2006 06:41 am
Chum wrote-

Quote:
Boyo, you have failed to substantiate the claim that teaching of evolution is "accidental, additional, avoidable, casual, causeless, chance, dispensable, excess, exorbitant, expendable, extraneous, extrinsic, fortuitous, futile, gratuitous, haphazard, inessential, irrelevant, lavish, needless, noncompulsory, nonessential, optional, prodigal, profuse, random, redundant, supererogatory, superfluous, surplus, uncalled-for, uncritical, undesirable, unessential, unneeded, unrequired, useless, wanton, worthless". unnecessary


1-It might be said to be accidental because it was a bit of an accident that Darwin read Malthus just at the point where his theory was stuck because up to that point he had been thinking of domesticated animals only.He had no mechanism for how nature selected until he got the struggle for existence idea out of Malthus.

It was also an accident,in a way,that FitzRoy's first choice for the job backed out and The Admiralty's first choice had a wife who looked so forlorn at the prospect that he also declined.

It is also something of an accident that the Beagle didn't suffer shipwreck or some other mishap and that Darwin didn't either.

Of course someone else may have hit upon the idea at a later date.The general notion had been floating about in Europe for some time but it was Darwin noticing changes in species as the ship journeyed south down the west coast of S America that focussed his mind.

Further,if I'm not boring you,court decisions played a part and in cases of this nature the decision is as likely to be based on political considerations as on the facts,or otherwise,of the narrow issue.

It might even be said to be an accident that this one field of science is easy to understand and,as such,attractive to the teaching profession.

It is obviously "additional" because it has been "added" to the curriculum since I went to school.

It is certainly "avoidable" and, according to a previous poster (wande I think) is indeed avoided by 35% of American science teachers.

From that is may be said to be "casual".

But it is not "causeless". Which rules out "chance" in the mundane use of that word.

"Dispensible","excess", "exhorbitant", "expendable", "extraneous", "extrinsic" and "fortuitous" are thus covered.

I think it futile for young people for many reasons most of which have been done already.

The rest of your list is covered by the above except maybe "irrelevant", "useless" and "worthless". For those, and indeed for all the rest in some degree, it depends on what sort of citizens and what sort of society is to be aimed at in teaching evolution in schools which BTW is not the same as "teaching evolution".

Which Thesaurus did you copy from?

But my opposition to teaching evolution theory is based on many other things which I have previously covered and which are more important than these minor matters.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 4 May, 2006 07:35 am
Wolf wrote-

Quote:
I remember you saying something similar to it during that "you darned Essdeeoids" phase you had,


It wasn't a phase. It was pissing back at the ID-iot phase.

Quote:
What you said was more along the lines of teaching of Evolution is contradictory to religious values, so you'll get smart arse kids believing in Evolution and not religious values and they will be the Eugenecists.


You do have high IQ kids. They are likely to exercise peer group influence. The classroom is not an isolated box. I didn't say they would become eugenicists. I might have said some of them would. They are more likely to become libertines and Enron executives. Lady evolutionists are the type who make application to famous and successful gents for one-off personal fertility treatment or trawl through the sperm bank records. I have been asked myself but I refrained. People like Dylan and Beckham and Pauling have been pestered. But it takes all the fun out of it.

Quote:
So, you are saying that because most Evolution-supporters think such a society is evil, then such a fear wouldn't happen?


I don't see how a flat-out evolutionist could possibly think any such thing.
There is a big difference between a flat-outer and a simple self-esteem boosting pose.

Quote:
That is the longest sentence I've ever read...


In that case you must not have read Proust and a good few others.

Quote:
Well, that doesn't really prove anything does it?


It wasn't intended to prove something. It was simply suggestive of what an atheist leadership might consider sensible for national progress. When Gary Gilmore was executed his organs were "utilised". (Maybe sold).

Quote:
No real proof. No meat to the assertion. Speaking of which... lunchtime! I'm have a cheese and Branston pickle sandwich. Tasty, yet horribly unhealthy.


An evolutionist would approve of such a diet because it is likely to kill you off just about when your usefullness to the economy is ended and prevent you being a burden for the last 20 or 30 years of your life.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Thu 4 May, 2006 07:39 am
spendius wrote:
You do have high IQ kids. They are likely to exercise peer group influence. The classroom is not an isolated box. I didn't say they would become eugenicists. I might have said some of them would. They are more likely to become libertines and Enron executives. Lady evolutionists are the type who make application to famous and successful gents for one-off personal fertility treatment or trawl through the sperm bank records. I have been asked myself but I refrained. People like Dylan and Beckham and Pauling have been pestered. But it takes all the fun out of it.


Yes, but that was an assertion without proof. You made the assertion, then didn't prove it. You accuse many people of doing the same and dismiss their viewpoints because of it.

Quote:
No real proof. No meat to the assertion. Speaking of which... lunchtime! I'm have a cheese and Branston pickle sandwich. Tasty, yet horribly unhealthy.


An evolutionist would approve of such a diet because it is likely to kill you off just about when your usefullness to the economy is ended and prevent you being a burden for the last 20 or 30 years of your life.[/quote]

Once again, an assertion without proof. I am Evolutionist, yet I do not approve of it. The elderly do have a purpose in helping to rear young, as seen in many animal groups in nature and in human society itself.
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Thu 4 May, 2006 08:00 am
I'd like to see a sentence authored by Proust, who you unashamedly try to compare yourself to ( Laughing ), which can in any way compare to the boxcar sentence with twenty-nine cabooses.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 4 May, 2006 08:08 am
Proust was known, from time to time, to have expressed coherent thought. That alone ends any meaningful comparison to Spendi.
0 Replies
 
 

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