Arthur Koestler wrote, acknowledging debts to Piaget and Freud--
"Until the end of the second or third year,while ego and noego are still incompletely divided,the child is unable to distinguish between the subjective and the objective between dream and reality, between the perceived and the imagined, between its thoughts and the things thought about. Children and primitives not only believe in magical transformation as it occurs in myths and fairy tales, but also believe themselves capable of performing it. ........(He gives examples)...
Psychological and physical causation are not yet separated; consequently, to wish for an event is the same as to produce it; the child implicitly believes in the omnipotence of thought. And as the thought becomes increasingly centred in verbal symbols, words become instruments of wishful evocation."
Hence to assert that an opponent in a debate is "stupid" or is "talking out of his arse" or has "been at the booze again" or "can't handle it" or any other of a long series of such empty assertions which have been seen on this thread, and many others, is evidence that the separation of the ego from the nonego remains incomplete even at much later stages than the third year.
I may even be guilty of it myself when I assert that I have made a much better job of sticking one up the CONFERENCE IN PHILADELPHIA than either of the last two posters neither of whom have any flesh on their simple assertions.
Steve wrote-
Quote:Far better to lie to them and fill their innocent little heads with stories of punishment or paradise in the world to come.
That is not the choice Steve. The debate went past that long ago. Although I do understand why you refuse to address the real issues which are given in my last post. I don't recall anybody on this thread expressing a belief in heaven or hell or supporting anyone who attempts to get children to believe in such drivel.
How many fairy stories has your Government told you during your adult life. (To the nearest 10 thousand will do.)
"The truth is obscure
Too profound and too pure
To live it you have to explode..."
Journey Through Dark Heat...Bob Dylan.
Do you fancy a journey through dark heat Steve? Do you really wish to put the kids through one. Truth is undivided. It isn't in a supermarket display where you can pick out what you fancy.
When I was 8 we had a rather posh lady ranting and raving at me and my dear Mother because I had told her 5 year old offspring that there was no Father Christmas. Ranting and raving bigtime. For ages and ages.Posh ladies are really good at it once you get them fired up.
I wasn't taking a lot of notice though. I was busy tuning my short wave radio listening into ship to ship and ship to shore messages.
You don't want to end up like me do you?
