Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Cue Girl Of The North Country. ( 1981 Vienna)

Things have taken a definitive turn for the worse, farmerman has used both my name and spendius' in the same sentence.

I thought ascetics welcomed,indeed embraced,turns for the worse.

Indeed anti-IDers must be ascetics as they seek a turn for the worse by their intransigent insistance that only validations of the senses have any value or even meaning.

Their constant refusal to describe a Godless society despite being asked to on a number of occasions suggests an unconscious awareness of that.

They usually change the subject and hope we will forget and that their silence will go un-noticed.

spendi, your crystal-transparent straw man that opponents of ID-iocy advocate a "Godless Society" is as baseless as your absurd contention that morality and ethics are religion-dependent.

Hi spendius,
I was not aware that I had renounced material comforts for the austere life of self-discipline, in particular as it relates to the act of religious devotion and/or spiritual improvement! Tell me how this came about, in my life, without even my knowledge, and how you managed to discover this.

Vey peculiar as per your claim that "anti-IDers must be ascetics" in that
an ascetic is a person who renounces material comforts and leads a life of austere self-discipline, especially as an act of religious devotion and/or spiritual improvement!

I suppose we can find christians that are also ascetics; nuns maybe.

No, I think they are under an anesthetic.

How about the "Gas That Makes You Laugh", nitrous oxide? Good for uplifting the downtrodden spirits of those selfless ascetics, and giving anesthesiologists a buzz during breaks between operations!

Helium would be even funnier, especially if the Pope got a dose of it. The chipmunk leader of the Catholic church.

timber wrote-



I am aware timber that your personal morality and ethics are not religion-dependent in any direct sense. But what matters is what the movers and shakers are like without religion. Morality and ethics are like icebergs.Nine tenths of them are out of sight and have been laid down in a fairly religious setting. In a Godless world that would not happen. Reason would be the source of morality and ethics which is a recipe for battles of wills each backed up by subjective reasons.

If opponents of ID don't want a Godless society then their attacks on belief,stringent as they are, are similar to the actions of a vandal who kicks the bus shelter glass in but doesn't wish to prevent the bus coming.

Chum wrote-



I wasn't saying that you had renounced material comforts personally. I was suggesting that you were renouncing them for your sons and grandsons etc and for sons and grandsons etc generally. What ever the outcome of this dispute won't affect you Chum.

A simple example will suffice I hope. A full blown anti-IDer, which very few are, a scientist one might say, does not eat a meal. He ingests necessary parts of the nutrient bed in which he finds himself. His wine has no bouquet-it is 12 or 13% and its origin is of no importance. He doesn't make love, he relieves sexual tension in manners similar to Gustave Flaubert in the brothel wearing only his top hat and blowing cigar smoke rings at his grinning image in the large mirror. An 18th century sailor on a British man-o-war would understand.

He would be austere, as science obviously is, and abstinent and only partake of such activities when biology dictated rather than when a felt sense of self-esteem did. As an austere,scientific ascetic he would need no artificial props to his self-esteem as Al Einstein didn't.

There is no correlation between believing in zombies, ghosts, angels, devils, burning bushes, talking animals, ethereal voices, etc and true enlightenment. Self imposed ignorance = campfire stories = fear.

But some people equate seeing their own family members with seeing god.

I'm afraid that I have no idea what the last two posts are meant to mean.
Are they forms of booing?

spendi, And you never will.

I'm very glad about that.

"Some people" do all sorts of wierd and wonderful things so it doesn't surprise me that some people do what you said they do. I still don't know what it is supposed to mean though. If you believe you smeared the whole of the ID camp with it then you must be living in a little dream world all of your own.

pancakes ... bunnies .... no! No! .... must .... resist ... must resisst ....

ahhhh, whutthuhell ....

Are we taking pap smears from ID'ers now?

Okay then timber-

Who are the "some people" who equate seeing their own family members with seeing God?

It's a new one on me. Maybe it's fairly common where you are. I've heard of equating things like suns and moons and mountains and waterfalls and even little freshwater springs with seeing God but one's family members is ridiculous. One has usually seen one's family members toddle off to the toilet for Number Two's and have been forced by circumstances to follow them in and who has not seen one's family members picking their nose or scratching in hard to get at places.

I do not quite see how you justify another go at the rabbit punch mouldy pancake artistry. (I'm assuming it's mouldy due to its extreme age and its obvious lack of mobility.)

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