97
   

Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 11:02 am
Posted over on Evolution. How? but meant to post it here!

Since over 95% if all species that have once existed on Earth are now extinct as failed life forms, the "intelligent designer" is not doing a very good job. If a designer were employed by a company and their designs are 95% unsuccessful, he or she would be pounding the pavement looking for a new job. Gee, maybe the "intelligent designer" is out there pounding the cosmic pavement? However, he (or she, or he/she if it's a transvestite) hasn't officially been fired, except for some of us who have had enough sense that he is doing a terrible job.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 11:50 am
Quote:
Intelligent design gets a place in the philosophy classrooms of secular Knox College
(By Liz Kemmerer, Science & Theology News, April 27, 2006)

Knox College in Galesburg, Ill., recently completed its first run of a one-of-a-kind course taught by a one-of-a-kind professor. In December, Martin Roth, a professor of philosophy of science at the secular private college taught a short philosophy course titled "Intelligent Design" to explore the topic historically and critically. A concentrated course, it made its debut during the college winter break from Nov. 29 to Dec. 16 with students meeting for three-hour sessions three times a week for three weeks.

Discussion-based courses often generate a flood of possibilities in the classroom. That's what Roth was after.

"I want to see what topics the students were interested in, what they pick up on, which directions they want to go," he said. The students enjoyed the material and appreciated that the arguments presented were far less tainted and silly than they were accustomed to, he added.

"Anti-Darwinists claim that you're killing God and pro-Darwinists claim he's already dead," said Micah Riecker, a senior creative writing major from Traverse City, Mich. "It just keeps spinning because people are so uninformed about what is going on. All of the students are now very much aware that the issue is far more complicated than implied by the media," Roth added.

In each three-hour class, Roth's goal was not to simply lecture but rather to review the material and explore varying viewpoints. Questions concerning ethical implications would often arise as the students progressed through the material. Such questions, however, allow the students to work through their ideas, said Roth.

"The class was very interesting to me because I knew very little about what the whole idea with intelligent design was," said Ricker. "I went in without any kind of firm footing. But Dr. Roth is an incredible teacher, and he had us reading the groundwork for the arguments for and against ID right away."

To add to the give-and-take, a member of the biology faculty and a local clergyman were invited as guest speakers, which, Roth said, the students enjoyed. The clergyman offered his belief that science is not separate from religion in that it is basically a philosophy. Following him was the biology faculty member who listed specific examples of how Darwinian theory has proven itself in science. The setting was treated as both discussion and debate with the two speakers arguing for and against intelligent design.


Roth designed the course to "look at intelligent design on three levels: as an argument for the existence of God, as an alternative to evolution in science, and in the context of the current debate over evolution and religion." According to Roth, it is important to understand that ID is not something recently installed on today's front page like an ice block to cool the seething evolution-creation debate. Rather, "intelligent design has a long history. The idea originated well before Darwin's work in the 1850s," Roth said.

The course delves into the history of the intelligent design movement, beginning with Plato, the first Western philosopher to make an argument for the existence of God based upon the design of this world. Our seemingly miraculous biological design and the fine-tuning of the universe allowing for the existence of life have become the chief supports for this argument. The class also tackled current scientific debates, including Darwin's argument for natural selection and whether or not intelligent design fits into the category of science as enterprise. Finally, the class discussed the multifaceted question of how this affects religion and morality.

The response generated from Roth's class has been overwhelmingly positive among students and faculty. "Various school administrators have told me that they heard positive things about the course from students who enrolled in it," Roth said. It appears that students who participated received a better explanation of intelligent design than they expected. "I gathered from the enthusiasm and interest with which they discussed matters that they were engaged with the topic," said Roth.

"Dr. Roth was very good to us and treated the issue fairly," Riecker said. "We were given the best of both sides." Even some of Knox's prospective students and their parents shared in the enthusiasm, having applauded the fact that Knox offers a course addressing this subject, Roth said. With the momentum resulting from the course, it looks probable that these prospective students will have the opportunity to experience it for themselves.

The principal reading material was Debating Design by Michael Ruse as well as excerpts and articles by William Dembski and others on intelligent design and natural selection. In addition, the class studied some chapters of Phillip E. Johnson's Darwin on Trial and Moral Darwinism: How We Became Hedonists by Benjamin Wiker and Dembski.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 11:57 am
It proves that ID and evolution can be discussed on a intellectual level when one side or the other doesn't ram it down the other's throats. What the piece was missing was if any conclusion was achieved.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 12:31 pm
I don't see a conclusion forthcoming in our lifetimes or in the next generation. ID will obviously not come up with any scientific precedent evidence but evolution will continue to make discoveries which will fine tune the science. Will it ever convince anyone even if it's accepted that we evolved from lower forms of life from the sea that there is not a "design scheme," no all-knowing interior/exterior decorator who has thrown out the old drapes over-and-over again for new drapes.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:20 pm
c.i. wrote-

Quote:
It proves that ID and evolution can be discussed on a intellectual level when one side or the other doesn't ram it down the other's throats. What the piece was missing was if any conclusion was achieved.


There was this-

Quote:
All of the students are now very much aware that the issue is far more complicated than implied by the media," Roth added.


and this-

Quote:
But Dr. Roth is an incredible teacher, and he had us reading the groundwork for the arguments for and against ID right away."


and this-

Quote:
The response generated from Roth's class has been overwhelmingly positive among students and faculty.


Which is enough to convince even a jaundiced cynic that Mr Roth is a brilliant and wise lecturer who can run rings round media and deserves to be invited to do play more gigs in those benighted institutions which can stump up the readies.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:20 pm
spendi said
Quote:
Perhaps anti IDers wish to give the impression that they are members of such an elite by taking a theoretical abstract stance at odds with the social realities but as it is often self-evident from their literary capacities that no such designation is applicable one is left to ponder their possible Marxist or left-wing ideals.


With such immature setup lines as this, no wonder people dont even recognize you.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:26 pm
spendi, It's only "complicatiom" are to those people that refuses to "see" what's available as proof for evolution. Trying to mingle ID with science makes no sense. ID is completely subjective emotionalism. Science is observation and interpretation. There's no way to marry the two topics - ever.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:28 pm
Thanks fm for not recognising me. It was a bit sarky I'll admit.

But-

Quote:
All of the students are now very much aware that the issue is far more complicated than implied by the media," Roth added.


Now that is somewhat at variance with what anti-IDers have been telling us all this long while. They have been saying that it's simple and that IDers are barmpots trembling with fear and that anti-IDers are top-notch educational experts. And "far more complicated" to boot.

Actually I prefer "complex" to "complicated" but I'm a bit of a stickler on language.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:34 pm
LW wrote-

Quote:
no all-knowing interior/exterior decorator who has thrown out the old drapes over-and-over again for new drapes.


I am assuming LW that your intention is to wittily suggest that God is not only a woman but a lower middle-class woman from suburbia.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:35 pm
Complex or complicated makes no difference; it's the observation of the esteemed professor that made the observation.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:37 pm
Well c.i. -the esteemed professor ought to have an idea of the difference.
I think our professors have.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:42 pm
c.i. wrote-

Quote:
spendi, It's only "complicatiom" are to those people that refuses to "see" what's available as proof for evolution. Trying to mingle ID with science makes no sense. ID is completely subjective emotionalism. Science is observation and interpretation. There's no way to marry the two topics - ever.


I know. That's why I favour not teaching evolution as some biology teachers don't. Teaching it seems to me provocative. It is like poking a stick in a lion's den. The reaction is a scientifically verifiable fact. It's a bit twee to whinge about a reaction when it's a scientific fact that it happens if it is provoked.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 01:56 pm
It is both appropriate and significant that Knox College presented intelligent design as philosophy rather than biology. In my opinion, intelligent design belongs to metaphysics or theology. It can not be taught as natural science because it relies on the existence of a mysterious factor outside of nature.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 02:13 pm
Would someone (perhaps even Spendius himself) be kind enough to let me know what exactly Spendius appears to be disputing / discounting with such regularity, in plain English? I sometimes get a chuckle out of reading them, and often find my substantial eyebrows moving skywards but……

Like, what are his top 10 beefs, each no more than one sentence, in simple plain English.

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 02:58 pm
(chumly: i think spendius is not concerned about the scientific merits of either intelligent design or evolution. he simply feels that teaching evolution would somehow lead to moral corruption.)

I want to clarify what I said earlier about metaphysics. In religious terms, the intelligent designer would be a deity. In metaphysical terms, the intelligent designer would be a "first cause" or "prime mover".
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 03:05 pm
Chumly, That's what all of us that have read spendi's posts have tried to understand; between coherence and incoherence, it's nearly impossible to dicipher what he's for or against. We have no question about his love of the pub.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 03:13 pm
If I thought there were anything to reincarnation, I'd peg spendi as this era's Montague Summers.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 03:22 pm
wande wrote-

Quote:
(chumly: i think spendius is not concerned about the scientific merits of either intelligent design or evolution. he simply feels that teaching evolution would somehow lead to moral corruption.)


I don't see how you could teach it unanswered without it doing so, and if it is answered the school will be brought into disrepute and education itself be corrupted and particularly in those areas where religious feeling is strong. I wouldn't, like those 35% of science teachers who do so,skip it to save hassle with the parents. That seems a selfish reason. I would skip it because I think society will benefit.

So you see c.i.-I'm for the benefit of society and I will allow I may be wrong and that actually is the crux of the debate as I have said since I began. I just think the times aren't yet ready for such a leap as to teach evolution exclusively and that is the only way to teach it. As someone who thinks Brave New World is utopian and not dystopian I might regret that but the world isn't here to suit me. All those pneumatic dames and narcotics and feelies and wasting time and extreme serial monogamy. Right up my street. The Soft Machine.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 03:26 pm
timber wrote-

Quote:
If I thought there were anything to reincarnation, I'd peg spendi as this era's Montague Summers.


Tried him. Totally unreadable. Not a spark to set my gas on fire.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Thu 27 Apr, 2006 03:33 pm
spendius wrote:
timber wrote-

Quote:
If I thought there were anything to reincarnation, I'd peg spendi as this era's Montague Summers.


Tried him. Totally unreadable. Not a spark to set my gas on fire.


That speaks well for evolution.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.12 seconds on 10/18/2024 at 02:29:50