Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

Thanks -- I had already linked to it in my last post, but maybe it was hard to see embedded in the text. So it's a good thing you displayed it more prominently.

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spendius wrote:

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All the religious fanatics ought to read this judicial opinion and discover for themselves the horrible manner in which they present themselves.
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Is any defender of the religious point of view considered a "fanatic" and just suppose they ALL took this advice and were converted and that there wasn't a religious idea remaining in the nation.
I think the view expressed is somewhat superficial and looks like nothing so much as a rant,a good excuse having been provided.Or so it is thought.

That EVERYBODY agreed with Debra and Thomas which they really ought to if they are right.Lets say it happened as fast as the mobile phone revolution or even faster as it's only a simple question and there's nothing to manufacture.

My,my-there were be dancing in the streets alright.

Did you even read the 139 page court document?

What religious points of view are you talking about? It is one thing for a religious person, due to his religious beliefs, to reject science. It is quite another thing for that person to get himself elected to the local school board so he can impose his rejection of science in favor of religious creationism on public school students.

As far as the Constitution is concerned, you can defend your religious belief in creationism in your church, in your home, and on every public street in this country. You can pass out pamphlets or purchase full page ads in newspapers to convey your religious beliefs. The means you may use to spread your religious views are nearly unlimited. However, the Constitution draws the line. You can't use our public schools to impose your religious views on others.

People who go to extreme lengths to dismantle the wall that separates church and state in order to use the power of the state to impose their views on others are the fanatics. If you want a clear picture of some very obnoxious and hateful fanatics, read the court document.

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Spendi is a Brit.

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Debra. Well written no? I was talking with a colleague, aresearcher in biophysics,
who stated that the judge did a better job than the scientists who provide the data .

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Debra-

I don't think all religious "fanatics",an emotive word,present themselves in a "horrible manner",an emotive phrase.One could easily think of other ways of composing your sentence.As it stands it is not very nice in a studied debate and one could well use your terms to describe your own presentatation if "religious" is made into "anti-religious".Hence you are in a shouting match.AGAIN.

Nothing is of less interest to me than the 139 page document.It is a mere incident in the long and unfinished battle between religion and science.I can't imagine there being anything new in it for me.

I suppose one is either religious or one is not and the nature of the case is that they are both a bit fanatical.With eternal life on one side and Pooohff! on the other one might not expect anything else.

The members of the School Board were elected and here in my beautiful land they are not just granted the power to decide what colour the staff room door should be painted by having been so.We choose the person who we think will make the best of the circumstances he or she finds, on our behalf.If we make a mistake we whizz them out of the door first chance we get.The Dover electorate has done that.By this method we look harder at the candidates which seems to be a responsibility you Americans need not bother about as you have a fail safe in the judiciary.Which,incidentally,gives your judiciary and legal profession more power than we concede.
Thus you can be a trifle more whimsical than us and decide your vote on presentation or on being outraged at a libertine youth.The outrage being derived,of course,from religious beliefs.If it is Pooohff what's wrong with a libertine youth.Or even a libertine lifestyle at the time of the election.

So the judgement,in my view,will be calculated to extend judicial powers in it's primary meaning and be a force to further reduce the number of people who qualify to run for office.That's why I needn't read it.I have noticed that in American movies the judge is not made to look like a complete wassock anywhere near as often as he is in ours.To refer to someone as "Your honour" here is abusive.

On your second paragraph-isn't it the case that the logic of it is that teachers will need to be "vetted".
By a panel of experts of course.What sort of experts gets us back to the beginning I fear.
A religious "fanatic" might sneak in the front door otherwise and then things he/she says in a classroom might then also become the subject of hot judicial enquiry.(By hot I mean expensive and,to those who don't give a damn what they teach them, such as myself, who has delegated these powers for energy saving purposes,a sound scientific principle,VERY expensive.It becomes a tax on the satisfied voter by the unsatisfied voter and the money ends up in soft furnishings,beauty salons right across the range and garden centres or anywhere else useless.

I already have as clear a picture as I dare look at of the "obnoxious" and "hateful fanatics" I see everywhere.I imagine I would be slightly mollified by the court document.My idea of obnoxious and hateful fanatics won't be living in Dover Pa.

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A "researcher in biophysics" is the sort of person who spends months in a laboratory on government funds wiring parts of a glow-worm up to sensitive electrical instruments and showing it different coloured cards in order to try to discover the optimum selling power of the background colour in a soap advert or some other product.Things like what causes the production of a propagated action potential in the axon of a motoneuron.If you Google "axon" it might blow your computer up.
That's the sort of thing I think.Gives you a bit of an idea.I couldn't be expected to provide a comprehensive definition which is understandable to the laity.Anything short and abstract would have to be in biophyicistese which is an esoteric language known only to a few.And some of the few are the daily company of our biophyics man/woman who thought that the judge did a better job than the scientists who provided the data.
So much for scientists then.Anyway-what was the job that the judge was better at assuming for a moment the assertion is true.We can assume it isn't true at some other time when we are not so exhausted from celebrating the birth of our Saviour.

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spendi, again you dont dissapoint at your amazing lack of understanding. If you have to google biophysics, then you shouldnt be allowed an opinion.
My friend in question teaches and works for a robotics company that he is cofounder.Among other things, They are "mission readying" a series of crystalline optical scanners that work like insect eyes, and are working on micro sized night vision appliances that can be used instead of the present unwieldy ones.

Further, your disjointed and somewhat confused logic makes me a bit concerned that you arent "over wassailed" . I picture you walking down the streets of your town muttering to yourself and anyone else in hearing distance.
"Blasted biophysisicissicsts (hic) , who bloody needs em says I"
"WE do" sez you
"Pullout your sword you bleedin pultroon , while I wax yer liver"

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BBB
Good grief! While the women are out shopping on the day after Christmas, the men are girding their loins, looking for a fight.

Christmas withdrawal symptoms?

BBB

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How comprehensively confirmatory BBB.

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spendius wrote:

A "researcher in biophysics" is the sort of person who spends months in a laboratory on government funds wiring parts of a glow-worm up to sensitive electrical instruments and showing it different coloured cards in order to try to discover the optimum selling power of the background colour in a soap advert or some other product.

O come on Spendy, they're not all that useful.

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They can be Steve.I've read about some experiments in biophysics which produced results,which I presume were valid,that caused me to to see the ladies in the pub in a somewhat different light than I had previously been wont to having been a victim of American romantic movies for so long.

They are also useful for people who have problems operating their biological systems properly often through no fault of their own.

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Well, we neednt worry about you in that fortune spendi.
You seem to take on many sides of an argument and often wind up arguing with yourself. I hope that you find you amusing and witty as you appear to. That is my sincere wish for you in 2006.

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Monsieur de Saint-Savin explained to Roberto in Umberto Eco's novel The Island of the Day Before-

"A true philosopher never seeks to subvert the order of things.He accepts it.He asks only to be allowed to cultivate the thoughts that comfort a strong spirit.For the others,luckily there are popes and bishops to restrain the crowd from revolt or crime.The order of the state demands a uniformity of conduct,religion is necessary for the people and the wise man must sacrifice a part of his independence so that society will remain stable."(1995).

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Quote:

Schools Nationwide Study Impact of Evolution Ruling
(By LAURIE GOODSTEIN, The New York Times, December 22, 2005)
When the school board in Muscatine, Iowa, sits down next year for its twice-a-decade evaluation of the district's science curriculum, the matter of whether to teach intelligent design as a challenge to evolution is expected to come up for discussion.
Board members disagree about whether they will be swayed by a sweeping court decision on intelligent design released on Tuesday in Pennsylvania. A federal judge there ruled intelligent design "a religious alternative masquerading as a scientific theory" that must not be taught in a public school science class.
"I don't think that a judge in one state is going to be able to tell everybody in all other states what to do," said Paul Brooks, a school board member and retired principal in Muscatine who favors teaching intelligent design. "So I don't get too excited about what he said."
The board's vice president, Ann Hart, demurred. "This determination in Pennsylvania will help the cause," Ms. Hart said, "for those of us who think intelligent design should not be taught in public school science classes because of separation of church and state."
****************************************************
Kristi L. Bowman, a law professor at Drake University in Des Moines, said that technically the judge's ruling was legally binding only in part of Pennsylvania and that no other courts in the country must follow it.
"That aside," Professor Bowman said, "this is such a thorough, well-researched opinion that covers all possible bases in terms of the legal arguments that intelligent design advocates present, that I think any school board or state board of education thinking about adopting an intelligent design policy should think twice."
Professor Bowman attended part of the Dover trial and expects her article on intelligent design to be in The Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy.
The legal fees incurred may be "an even stronger cautionary signal to school districts around the country than the actual decision," Professor Bowman said.

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wandeljw wrote:

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Schools Nationwide Study Impact of Evolution Ruling ... The legal fees incurred may be "an even stronger cautionary signal to school districts around the country than the actual decision," Professor Bowman said.

Many pages back Spendi told us to "follow the money" to see how things will play out.

I'm not sure the financial "flow" ever favored incorporation of ID into science class, but there's no question that proponents of ID are swimming upstream now.

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ros-

If you care to glance at 1748738 on the last page you might notice that following the money has other dimensions than the cost in a minor court case.

PS-I would like to know what is causing these breaks in continuity in this great thread.If I knew I would take steps to make sure that my input is not a contributing factor.

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spendius wrote:

ros-

If you care to glance at 1748738 on the last page you might notice that following the money has other dimensions than the cost in a minor court case.

You make the point you want to make and I make the point I want to make. Different viewpoints on the same thing.

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ros-

The principle of following the money is driven by the quantity:larger amounts having distinct priority over lesser ones.

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spendius wrote:

ros-

The principle of following the money is driven by the quantity:larger amounts having distinct priority over lesser ones.

Where do you see these amounts currently?

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ros-

I have already directed your attention to Post 1748738.In that you will see that I have answered your question before you asked it.Broad brush strokes are all one can use on here.

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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

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