timberlandko wrote:Please allow me to extend seasonaly appropriate platitudes, as may be not inconsistent with, pejorative of, or inimical to any particular culture, heritage, and/or preference, to one and all, with express provision that any who wish may consider themselves exempt and exluded from this offering.
The
O'Reilly Christmas Pummeling threadis just begging for this.
Prosecutor seeks perjury evidence
Prosecutor seeks perjury evidence
Thursday, December 22, 2005
BY JOHN BEAUGE AND BILL SULON
Of The Patriot-News
WILLIAMSPORT
A federal prosecutor said testimony in the Dover Area School District's intelligent design case is under review to determine if perjury charges should be pursued.
U.S. Middle District Attorney Thomas A. Marino said yesterday that decision will take time because there is "a lot of reading to do" to determine if the statements rise to the level of a crime.
"I want to question a couple of people who were present," he said. They will not include Judge John E. Jones III, who presided over the case, he said.
Marino's comments came a day after Jones struck down the school district's policy of telling ninth-grade biology students Darwin's theory of evolution is not fact and intelligent design is an alternative explanation of the origin of life.
In his opinion, Jones accused some of those who testified during the six-week trial in Harrisburg of lying, singling out former board members Alan Bonsell and William Buckingham, the leading proponents of the policy.
Both men testified during the trial, which ended last month, and both gave sworn statements in depositions on Jan. 3. During the trial, Jones and lawyers for parents opposed to the policy confronted the men about the discrepancies and evasiveness in their answers to questions about their motivations and efforts to raise money for a pro-intelligent design textbook, "Of Pandas and People."
During the trial, after questioning by Jones and lawyers, Bonsell and Buckingham acknowledged that Buckingham raised money for the books in his church, then wrote a check for $850 to Bonsell's father, who bought the texts and donated them to the school district. Neither man disclosed the transaction in their deposition.
"The inescapable truth is that both Bonsell and Buckingham lied at their Jan. 3, 2005, depositions about their knowledge of the source of the donation for Pandas. ... ," Jones said in his ruling. "This mendacity was a clear and deliberate attempt to hide the source of the donations by [Bonsell and Buckingham] to further ensure that Dover students received a creationist alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution."
"Pandas" is a pro-intelligent design book written by creationists.
Jones also questioned the "credibility" of statements by other school officials and former board members.
In an interview, Buckingham called Jones a liar and denied making false statements. Bonsell has said he "tried to be as truthful" as he could.
Witold Walczak, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union, which represented parents opposed to the policy, said any decision to bring perjury charges would be made by the prosecutor's office.
BBB, Good article; as a follow-up to the Dover case, it seems only obvious that some of the IDers lied in court. I thought the last nail on the ID coffin was already completed, but it'll be interesting to see if other legal issues are involved.
Maybe it'll put the "fear of god" into IDers in other states.
c.i. has thus transformed the law into unassailed pre-eminence.Like in 1984.
spendius, I haven't transfored any law. Mine is only a response to BBBs post about lying in court.
Get a grip.
Re: Prosecutor seeks perjury evidence
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:"The inescapable truth is that both Bonsell and Buckingham lied at their Jan. 3, 2005, depositions about their knowledge of the source of the donation for Pandas. ... ," Jones said in his ruling. "This mendacity was a clear and deliberate attempt to hide the source of the donations by [Bonsell and Buckingham] to further ensure that Dover students received a creationist alternative to Darwin's theory of evolution."
As punishment, I think they should both be required to study evolutionary theory sufficient to pass a college exam.
I presumed "fear of god" was meant to mean fear of the law which some IDers might not have.That you were insisting that the IDers had now a new god to fear and would be cowed by it.
Since most christians fear god's laws more than they do government laws (as indicated by their push for ID in the US - ignoring the separation of church and state), I thought it apropos; nothing more, nothing less.
I read the entire 139 page court decision.
The religious fanatics who ruled the school board are scary people. They abused their power; they browbeat and coerced the dissenting board members and the teachers; they injected a religious test as a prequisite for holding membership on the school board; they disfavored those who did not share their religious agenda; and they LIED under oath.
They are disgusting, despicable hypocrits who were using their government positions to impose their views on others in violation of the Constitution. Their corrupted, oppressive, and embarrassing conduct has given the City of Dover an incredibly bad name. All the religious fanatics ought to read this judicial opinion and discover for themselves the horrible manner in which they present themselves.
Debra_Law wrote: All the religious fanatics ought to read this judicial opinion and discover for themselves the horrible manner in which they present themselves.
I agree. And before those religious fanatics dissmiss the opinion as written by a raving liberal activist, I suggest that they consider Judge Jones' biography. The judge has been a life-long Republican and was appointed by George W. Bush. Therefore, within the spectrum of possible judicial opinions, this one probably errs on the side of cutting creationism too much slack.
Quote: "They are disgusting, despicable hypocrits who were using their government positions to impose their views on others in violation of the Constitution."
Sounds just like the president of the US.
Quote:All the religious fanatics ought to read this judicial opinion and discover for themselves the horrible manner in which they present themselves.
.
Is any defender of the religious point of view considered a "fanatic" and just suppose they ALL took this advice and were converted and that there wasn't a religious idea remaining in the nation.
I think the view expressed is somewhat superficial and looks like nothing so much as a rant,a good excuse having been provided.Or so it is thought.
That EVERYBODY agreed with Debra and Thomas which they really ought to if they are right.Lets say it happened as fast as the mobile phone revolution or even faster as it's only a simple question and there's nothing to manufacture.
My,my-there were be dancing in the streets alright.
Debra_Law wrote:I read the entire 139 page court decision.
The religious fanatics who ruled the school board are scary people. They abused their power; they browbeat and coerced the dissenting board members and the teachers; they injected a religious test as a prequisite for holding membership on the school board; they disfavored those who did not share their religious agenda; and they LIED under oath.
They are disgusting, despicable hypocrits who were using their government positions to impose their views on others in violation of the Constitution. Their corrupted, oppressive, and embarrassing conduct has given the City of Dover an incredibly bad name. All the religious fanatics ought to read this judicial opinion and discover for themselves the horrible manner in which they present themselves.
Welcome to the rightwing conservative Christian world. No wonder the Romans crucified them!
I have a question in the category of "please do my homework for me": A couple of months ago, I surfed into a really exhaustive catalogue of ojections against evolution, all of which were debunked. The site was rather spartanically designed, kind of like a file system, with top categories like "philosophy of science", "geology", "molecular biology", etc. I foolishly neglected to bookmark this site, as I just found out while trying to look this up. I think I had originally found it by following a link from either talkorigins or the Center of Science Education, but I just surfed to these sites and can't find that link again either.
If anybody in this thread recognizes which site I'm talking about, I would be very grateful for a pointer.
Don't know if this what you are looking for:
Evidence of Evolution
Almost -- thanks, talk72000. The page
was on talkorigins.org, but it was their "
Index of Creationist Claims" I had had in mind. But thanks again for your pointer, and apologies to everyone for whom my question caused needless work.
Here's something interesting
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ15.HTM
Ooops, Maybe not ...
Well!
What if EVERYBODY was converted?What would happen.You can't go bothering about some itsy-bitsy site you can't even remember to take your mind off the question.
Surely you are not offering to provide a new wisdom in the world without looking into the potential consequences.That's really irresponsible.
