Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

C'mon, Edgar. You can do better than that.

I'm just mocking your "There are no gods" blind guess. Or more exactly, I am mocking your "My blind guess that there are no gods is more logical and reasonable than the blind guesses of those who guess there is at least one."

It is very funny...which you would see if you ever develop a sense of humor.

I'm mocking your blind guesses as a form of self-delusion, taking on the nature of a religious crusade to keep anyone from disagreeing with you.

You are echoing my comments, because you cannot seem to come up with any of your own.

I do not know if any gods exist. You, on the other hand, want to pretend you do.

So I call your attention to the blind guesses you call certainty.

That seems to annoy you.

Too bad, that. For you, anyway.

You are being stupid. Caught up in some kind of a psychosis which keeps you from committing to the facts and has you giving non facts equal credence. You're worse than a fence sitter. A fence sitter at least approaches the fence.

So I call your attention to the blind guesses you call certainty.

That seems to annoy you.

You're so full of ****. I was not arguing with you but you took several posts to take shots at me in hope I would get annoyed. You were determined to pick until you could get a rise. You have the bully's mentality.

‘SPEECH’ is equated with Brahman, the principle head of the triad God of the Hindu, Much the same as ‘WORD’ is equated with the Christian LOGOS God. The Rig Veda states that Brahman extends as far as Vāc, which means word. But in Sanskrit teachings of the Sanatana Dharma, vac has many levels. Including where the word is first considered as being in the mind as ‘A THOUGHT,’ and not as the spoken word or speech.

And the Rig Veda has hymns in praise of Speech as the Creator and as the final abode of Brahman. Time is the creative power of Shabda Brahman.
According to the German theoretical physicist, Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck: One Planck time is the time it would take a photon travelling at the speed of light to cross a distance equal to one Planck length.

The Planck time is the time it would take a photon travelling at the speed of light to cross a distance equal to the Planck length. This is the 'quantum of time', the smallest measurement of time that has any meaning, and is equal to 10-43 seconds. No smaller division of time has any meaning. Within the framework of the laws of physics as we understand them today, we can say only that the universe came into existence when it already had an age of 10-43 seconds.

Planck Time, does not define the singularity, as there still remains distance/space and momentum and therefore ‘TIME”.

A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe, from which singularity our eternal oscillating and ever evolving universe is resurrected to continue on in that everlasting process.

Without space, there can be no movement, and without movement through space there can be no time. So, when did time begin?

What caused the singularity of our origin, in which was all the information gathered by previous universal bodies, to begin to expand once again?

Did the gravitational force within the Great Abyss into which the previous universe had fallen and crushed as it travelled along the decreasing ‘WORMHOLE’, begin to weaken?

Did this weakening effect, allow the infinitely hot, infinitely dense, infinitesimally small singularity to move and begin to occupy more and more space around itself, expanding like a giant balloon at the speed of light, until some 10-43 seconds later, it was spatially separated, and the super-hot liquidlike plasma of Photons, with an estimated temperature of some 100 million trillion, trillion kelvins, or 180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit, a temperature in which no physical element can exist, was spewed out of the WHITE HOLE, and in a different position in Space-Time, the old universe was resurrected from that eternal energy, by the information that had been gathered from all the previous generations of the eternal evolving Logos/Brahman.

Logos/Brahman; the essential divine reality of the Universe; the eternal spirit from which all being originates and to which all must return at the close of each period of universal activity.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being too non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

Frank is just looking for evidence. He's not condemning the evidence (and as a Christian myself, I don't need 'proof'), he's just not accepting testimony as evidence - as the judge of his own court that is his call.

And what happens is the other party gets mad and the bicker starts.

Franks position is as about as honest as it can be: he doesn't know, he does have an open mind. And he wants proof either way.

I get Edgar's point, too. I'm from Akron, Ohio, home of Earnest Angley and Rex Humbard, both of whom showed up first with a tent revival.

I've seen what he's talking about happen and what happened to some of those victims; he comes by his anger 'righteously'. It breaks my heart that there is nothing to be done to comfort him about it.

I suppose that explains why he decided to ignore me; I refused to get mad.

Nor do I expect him to accept anyone's testimony as evidence. I certainly have never offered mine to him.
I did however offer a reasoned argument why our existence required a creator. I did not argue which or what kind of creator, but just from what we know of biology, that creator had to be sentient.

If Frank or anyone else shows me a flaw in that argument, I would only feel gratitude, but so far no one has been able to.

And there is certainly no shame in it if Frank does not know enough biology to make a judgement. But rather than say that, he chooses to dogmatically insist that the evidence cannot be understood by anyone. For that reason, I can’t go along with you on Frank's open mindedness.

So no, I do not feel the least bit hostile toward Frank. At least he knows what the important question is, and that I admire.

The argument's hogwash, leadfoot. No offense intended. Millions of years into the process a sentient intelligence steps in to change the course of evolution. Here we are pushing ourselves to extinction in a near future but a sentient being that shows us no love or mercy or other intervention kindly stopped in in that ancient past to do the one deed.

Just imagine how God feels about those hucksters.

Unconditional love is a lie that will not save them.

I do not know the extent God stepped in to influence evolution, I only know that the design paradigm that ALL biological life utilizes was the result of an intelligent designer.

And no offense edgar, but you do not know enough molecular biology to offer an informed criticism of my protein argument.

You are correct edgar, we are pushing ourselves to extinction, and if not for the intervention of the Lord no flesh would survive, but for the sake of his elect and chosen, he will intervene.

What must be done for the sake of world peace, will not be to the likings of many, but what must be done, will be done in the war to end all wars, then there will be peace for a thousand years before the next extinction event, which allows us the time to prepare for the ultimate extinction of all physical life forms on this planet.

But, we shall not all fall asleep in death, for at the sound of the last trumpet, before the heavenly fire incinerates the earth, those descendants of the hybrids who were disobedient in the days when Noah was building his boat, and to who the spirit of Jesus preached the Good News also, will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, from bodies of corruptible matter into glorious bodies of incorruptible and blinding light.

It is in that thousand years of peace, where, in my opinion, all our resources will be used to prepare for the ultimate destruction of all physical life forms that remain on this planet. Knowing that which is to occur after the one thousand year Sabbath has ended, when heavenly fire incinerates the surface of the earth, with the great wealth that will be paid in tribute by the nations of the world during that thousand year rule of our king and high priest, genetic banks of all physical life forms will be created, (The Ark) and sent to a place of safety in order that when the incinerated earth is once again able to sustain physical life forms, Plants will be planted, animals will be created anew, and when the system for the sustainability of mankind has been put in place, the Lord, our brother, king, and high priest will say, "And now, let us make man in our image and likeness." And a new and more humble Race of men will people this earth.

"Under the guidance of Jupiter (Planet) man prepares, by means of religious exercises, for the journey to the life beyond, and he attains rest under the influence of Saturn." (Basra Encyclopedia)- De Boer, Philosophy in Islam, p 88.

The water ocean on Enceladus , a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, researchers said. Further, it's in direct contact with a rocky seafloor, theoretically making possible all kinds of complex chemical reactions — such as, perhaps, the kind that led to the rise of life on Earth.

"The world being melted and re-entered into the bosom of Jupiter, this God continues for some time totally con-centered in himself: . . . afterwards we see a new world spring from him, perfect in all its parts; animals are produced anew; an innocent race of man is formed under more favourable auspices, in order to people this earth." " Seneca, Epist, 9, and Qucest. Nat. L. 3, c, ult.

No offense taken. You underestimate nature, bottom line.

Heh.

An intelligent designer had to step in. Who stepped in to make the intelligent designer?

The first law of thermodynamics is the same as the first law of conservation and that is, that energy can neither be created or destroyed. If energy cannot be created, then it always was, and if it can never be destroyed, it always will be. Therefore, according to this law, energy must be eternal, having neither beginning or end.

That eternal energy, which is all that exists, it is the grand designer. It is "THE GREAT THOUGHT", the universal mind, and the collective consciousness of all that it has become, It is the same today as it always was and will be into the everlasting, It is the only true constant, in that It has been constantly growing/changing/evolving, It has neither beginning or end, it always was changing and will forevermore continue to change. IT IS THE LOGOS.

And the Most High to have developed within the LOGOS, is my God; "WHO I AM".

Awww...you are losing it. I thought you were more adult.

Anyway...if you think my saying that I do not know if any gods exist is fence sitting or "worse than" fence sitting...you have a problem with logic. And if you think that your blind guess that there are no gods is any more reasonable than the blind guess that at least one GOD does...well...you have a problem with logic that is even funnier.

Now...go back and think of something more mature than calling me "stupid" or being "caught up in some kind of psychosis." We'll play some more when I get back from my morning round of golf.

Ahhh! This is invigorating.

C'mon, Edgar. YOU started this bullshit...not I.

So now try to fake it and take your medicine like a man.

I respect you for this.

Even if we are not always getting along in other topics. I'm pretty bad at the "not being goaded" part.

Actually what annoys him more is the phrase blind guesses used against him.

Before calling me a moron, he would routinely say that we can't prove anything and that it's all blind guesses.