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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
The Anointed
 
  -4  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2021 07:30 pm
@Leadfoot,
COPY that mate, and now I would like to continue from my previous post in this thread.

According to the Genesis narrative, it is on the second day that the Lord calls for a "firmament" to be in the "midst of the waters" to divide the waters:
"And God said, let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under (or within) the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day." (Genesis 1:6-8 KJV)

The term "firmament" according to the Creation account, is taken from the Hebrew: רָקִיעַ raqiya` raw-kee'-ah, which is defined by many scholars as an expanse, or the visible arch of the sky:—firmament, but a primitive root; “רָקַע raqa` raw-kah” means, to pound, hammer, to overlay (with thin sheets of metal):—beat, make broad, spread abroad (forth, over, out, into plates), stamp, stretch.

The creation of the firmament is associated with the placement of some sort of structure, and in some modern Bibles many modern scholars translate the Hebrew word raqia as a "dome" or "vault". The Hebrew language appears to imply that the firmament is a firm, fixed structure (FIRMament, which can now be seen as the spherical cloud of comets (Icy vault) in which our solar system was created from the solar nebula cloud that was divided from the greater galactic nebula cloud.

Unlike the orbits of the planets and the Kuiper Belt, which are pretty flat like a disk, the Oort Cloud is a spherical shell surrounding everything in our solar system. It's like a bubble with a thick shell. The Oort Cloud is made up of icy pieces of space debris.

"And God said, “Let there be lights within the firmament or vault to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

(Genesis 1:14-16 KJV) This verse says that the Sun, Moon, and Stars=planets of our solar system, are "within" the firmament. Therefore, the waters that are "above the firmament=dome/vault" must be above the Sun, Moon and Stars=planets of our solar system, revealing that the waters which are referred to in Psalms 148:4; "Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens," belong to the greater galactic nebula cloud which has become our Milky Way Galaxy.

The Oort cloud, or the Opik-Oort cloud, which is named after Jan Oort, is a spherical cloud that surrounds our solar system, a cloud of predominantly icy objects such as comets that are comprised of mainly hydrogen, oxygen=water, ammonia and methane, and extends up to about a light year from the sun and defines the cosmographical boundary of our Solar System and the region of the suns gravitational dominance. Here is the Firmament, the great spherical vault within which is found the sun, moons and planets of our solar system, the dome of ice above and around us.

Knowing that the planets of our solar system were already created before the actual sun came into existence when the hydrogen nuclei within the condensing solar cloud started fusing together to produce helium nuclei and a lot of energy thereby creating our sun, we must now ask the question, “Did life on earth begin to evolve before the creation of the sun” as is recorded in the Bible? And can life exist without actual sunlight? Proof of this is to be found in the darkest depths of our oceans, where life has evolved around the extremely hot and noxious gas vents over six miles beneath the surface where sunlight does not and cannot penetrate.

As stated before, the water ocean on Enceladus, a moon that orbits the planet Saturn, is about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep and lies beneath a shell of ice 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 km) thick, in direct contact with a rocky seafloor: How much heat must be issuing from the rocky floor of Enceladus to liquify a 10 kilometer deep ocean beneath a 30 to 40 kilometer ice cap?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2021 08:53 pm
@The Anointed,
Quote:
PROTO-HUMANS WERE NOT HUMANS AND THE PROTO-SUN, WAS NOT YET OUR SUN.
as with a lot of your disjointed rambling from U Az you try to "force fit" some bit of Genesis as a "scientific journal"
I see that youve run to adapt the Solar Nebular Hypotheses to somehow give some cred to Genesis, (ven though Genesis has 2 separate accounts of the origins of something they call the "Firmament" , a topic that always draws laughter at conferences ).

Real evidence is always welcome. Stuff like isotopic data which is available if we accept the origins of the bolides .





The Anointed
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2021 09:18 pm
@farmerman,
I have simply proved to you, that our greatest scientific minds, agree that the energy that can never be created nor destroyed, which was spewed out in the trillions upon trillions of degrees when the singularity of origin was spatially separated in the event that is called 'THE BIG BANG' has become our universe and all that exist.

It was through that Eternal body of energy that all things came into existence, it was by that Eternal body of energy that all things exist, and it was for that Eternal body of energy that all things exist.

It is He, in who you exist, and He, who exists in you, who you deny.

And the fool says, "There is no God." Biblical quote.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2021 09:58 pm
@The Anointed,
And Ive asked you "SO F;in WHAT"?
Wverybody has their own title for dark energy , From Dr Feynman (PBUH) to Dr Tyson (he clls it dark gravity).

Can you even admit that you have no fuckin idea in hell what the conditions of the Conservation laws wre when there was no time and space??

IM Here to discuss the origins of life and the evidence of the origins of erth;s oblate spehroid. even leadfoot has been consistent in his arguments. I uppose your a Witness, your tyle is one of divert and disperse rather than focuse and discuss.

Ill try to keep you on target but your ideas are more like keeping frogs in a wheelbarrow, you dont want to discuss what this thread was about. why
/
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2021 10:32 pm
@farmerman,
My, my, what a foul little mouth you have, but what else can one expect from the godless who want all our children indoctrinated into their hopeless and godless belief, I suppose you use language like that around your children, and women that you have just recently met.

If you are here to discuss the origins of life, you must first discuss the origin of the universe, in which, from which and for which, life began.

Was there life before the universe was formed, and if so, where, and in what form did it exist?

So let's kick back and discuss the "ORIGIN OF LIFE."

If you believe that a universe of mindless matter has produced beings with intrinsic ends, [in Kantian terminology, an end-in-itself], self- replication capabilities, and “coded chemistry”? Then you must accept that it is the eternal energy, which has neither beginning or end, that has become this material universe and has developed a mind that is the compilation of all the information gathered by all the diverse life-forms that ‘it,’ [The Eternal Energy] has become, the collective consciousness of all that it is.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 05:27 am
@The Anointed,
just as the origins of life are separate from the analyses of evolution, I see no reason to invoke a Biblical account of the origins of the Universe , I have noreason or evience to buy your pulpit talk re "Eternal Energy" when all youre doing is extending Conservation law back to some beginning. Something of which we have no ideas and insttead, multiple hypotheses abound.


farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 05:33 am
@farmerman,
WHAT vidence have you regarding your belief that the universe was sdesigned?? At least Leadfoot tries to address it. You merely go on and on about several topics removed and for which evidence is mostly phenomenological .
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 05:40 am
@The Anointed,
Quote:
“coded chemistry
your term.not mine. mineral chemistry in the Solar system and the Galzxy clearly reveals an almost "Evolutionary " string of compounds from basic native elemenst through oxides and salts and then organics ,OCCUR in recognizable sequences as seen in the earths own chemical fossil record. This all occurs in the crust and the upper mantle and th evidence is quite clear.

Science isnt afraid of being shown to be wrong , its just that evidence doesnt lead in the directions with which you seem to have traveled.
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 04:56 pm
@farmerman,
Correct! The awesome creations of the Eternal can be seen in the mineral chemistry in the Solar system and the Galaxy, which clearly reveals an "ALMOST EVOLUTIONARY" string of compounds from basic native elements through oxides and salts and then organics , which occur in recognizable sequences as seen in the earths own chemical fossil record. This all occurs in the crust and the upper mantle and the evidence is quite clear.

Keep up the good work in your attempt to reveal how the Eternal created this Awesome cosmos.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 06:40 pm
@The Anointed,
you really are clueless eh? youve jut squatted on yer original argument . Youve basically missed the memo re changes of state in energy and matter in closed systems.


The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2021 07:52 pm
@farmerman,
Changing states of matter occur when matter loses or absorbs energy. When a substance absorbs energy the atoms and molecules move more rapidly and this increased kinetic energy pushes particles far enough, that they change form. This energy is usually heat or thermal energy.

Matter did not exist at the moment of the event known as 'THE BIG BANG, old mate, matter is a creation from, by and for, the Eternal origin of this supposedly physical universe.

Matter could not exist when the universal temperature was around 100 million trillion trillion kelvins, or 180 million trillion trillion degrees Fahrenheit.

Try again young fellow.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 12:13 am
@The Anointed,
the bible is codified folklore of a pretty primitive periperal culture far from the high civilizations of the time, speculating about things of which they knew nothing. not much of a reliable source. written some 13 billlion years AFTER the big bang. You're just trying to anthropomirphize a purely natural phenomonon.
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 12:25 am
@MontereyJack,
Go back and read post #7,143,478 and # 7,143,533, then come back and talk to me.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 04:40 am
@The Anointed,
your knowledge of P chem is quaint. You argue from only one POV, The real issue in hanges of state for closed systems have mostly (without Tarragon we dont have sauce Bernaise))to do with surface chem reactions ,Eh/pH etc and key elements doing their dances of chirality. Its not a simple matter as you post. There are changes of state that have only been realized in post Pleistocene times(for examples) because of xpanding layers (clay hydration etc) and the presence of "key ingredients" .We can have all sorts of avilable energy but without the key ingredient fortunately making their presence for protobiotic chemistry, we have a cinder planet.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 04:47 am
@farmerman,
As Ive asked, please presnt som actual testable evidence re your Genesis viewpoints there we can meet and argue.
As MJ correctly states , you mrely anthropomorphise physical systems and stop when youve posted a supportive Biblical quote.
Theres nothing scientific in the Bible to warrant any discussions of Planetary beginnings of life and geodesy. Youre just force fitting phrases and hoping folks will buy it. Youre 100 miles wide and a millimeter deepwith your ICS stuff.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 05:25 am
@farmerman,
From what was matter created? [from the electromagnet energy that has neither beginning or end] How was our solar system created? [By the accretion of the solar nebula disk from the greater Galactic nebular disk, which was being attracted to the central Black Hole around which it had begun to orbit, which transferred angular momentum outward as it transferred mass inward, it was this that caused our solar nebula to begin to rotate and condense inward, bringing a division of the solar cloud, from the galactic cloud, or the waters above from the waters below as recorded in the bible.]

How were the planets within or solar system created before our sun burst into light and life? As revealed in the bible. How was the great Icy bubble that envelops our solar system, 'The firmament" as revealed in the bible, created? Did life begin in the early highly noxious atmosphere on the earth before the sun was created as revealed in the bible?
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 07:44 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
We can have all sorts of avilable energy but without the key ingredient fortunately making their presence for protobiotic chemistry, we have a cinder planet.

The 'key ingredient ' that you erroneously claim to be 'the right kind of clay' etc. Could only be embraced by the ignorant, on the word of 'authorities', or someone with a desire to mislead.

There is in fact a key ingredient, that being Information, and that only comes from an intelligent actor.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 09:28 am
@Leadfoot,
breathless inanity there L.
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farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 09:32 am
@The Anointed,
more inanity. Not worth response. At least yer happy with knowing that even milk needs an intelligent designer in order to sour . every quartz vein hs been planned and approved by the big guy.

Leadfoot meet "Dr Hamm"
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jul, 2021 09:34 am
@The Anointed,
Quote:
Quote:
Did life begin in the early highly noxious atmosphere on the earth before the sun was created as revealed in the bible?
Does the Bible really say all that??? point it out. Im all ears.

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