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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:28 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
The fact is that nobody here KNOWS if there is intelligent design or not...although I doubt that will stop the atheists from pretending they do...

My worldview is simply a conclusion based one based on the weight of evidence. No real science ever states something unequivocally because new findings always dump the cart. However, in such things as this (Similar to the moon and green cheese), some rather strong conclusions are what we have.
If youd read the various output of the ID "Scientific" literature v the literature of standard biology, youd quickly see (on any particulr subject) that ID "science" has never produced any unique focused research results or any non-debunked analyses (like Irreducible complexity ). So, a conclusion that one ultimately arrives at is that ID seems to be merely a "wish list" and not a scientifically compelling evidence based story.
In mymind, the strength o evidence wins the day. ID evidence has been continuously debunked or shot down in the field, Id say that the possibility of an " ID world" is quite remote, based on what we now know. (whether its a deity derived or or the other style of ID that the Discovery Institute tries to make us believe they represent). The only reason I cannot say UNEQUIVOCALLY that Im convinced that ID is impossible is if we, as we tour the galaxy, find out , in successive findings, that ALL of what we find is based upon
1organic chemistry
2Ribonucleic acid based.
those two above findings would give me pause to develop another hypothesis or hypotheses, that is not an abiogenesis- earth-based

Your arguments to the contrary seem to be based on "just not quite enough interest" to delve deeper into the lit,but rather "

Ive gotta say something deep-sounding on this subject anyway"

That's all Im saying. The fact that you rewind every couple weeks to restate this piece of ( deleted), is at least amusing.
You kinda remind me of the John Goodman character in "Lebowski" where hes lost in Viet Nam and everything he says is a restatement of the battle of Whey ]


You just posted a lot of English words there, FM...but they simply do not negate what I said...and what you were supposedly responding to.

YES...it does seem evolution is the process that got us to where we are as humans right now. There seems to be very little chance that things did not happen in that sort of way.

But there is no way you can say that "evolution" was not the design protocol of an intelligent designer.

Most of this nonsense coming from you has little to do with the actual subject supposedly being discussed. What is annoying you is that you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge that there may be a GOD. And if there happens to be a GOD...then intelligent design (yes, in the form of evolution) is almost a certainty.

You are as hung up on your atheism as these theistic creationists crazies are hung up on the story of creation of the Bible.

But continue to talk down to me and disparage what I am saying....because that is all you've got going for you now. And I will continue to enjoy watching you close your mind as much as the people you so often mock.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:31 am
If life on this planet was designed, there is precious little evidence that the designer was intelligent.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:35 am
If the designer decided that "evolution" was the path it was going to use...

..."whatever exists" is evidence of intelligence in the design and the designer...

...the pronouncements of the so-called lovers of science and logic in this forum notwithstanding.
timur
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:37 am
@FBM,
And here I was, thinking that baraminology derived from the French "barre à mine", spud bar/crowbar!

It makes sense, you'd need such a tool to disintrincate the facts with the religious nuts..
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:48 am
@timur,
timur wrote:

And here I was, thinking that baraminology derived from the French "barre à mine", spud bar/crowbar!

It makes sense, you'd need such a tool to disintrincate the facts with the religious nuts..


Crowbars are for separating. Sledgehammer are for integrating. I think we'd need a sledgehammer to integrate the religious nets with the facts. In my estimation, farmerman is our sledgehammer. The religitards have to struggle mightily to contend with the force of his reasoning. And still they fail...
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:49 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If the designer decided that "evolution" was the path
Then the designer also needs to take responsibility for the thousands of catastrophic and edaphic changes to the planet within which naturl slection works as organisms adapt.
Tinker tinker tinker.

we see the events and results of microevolution and higher , and there seems to be natural selection in action and nobody notices the splitting and pile driving of the continents (the rending of African East and the colliding of Australia with Asia)

Weve already go huge species differences through the Sunda sea where Australian species are beginning to "collide" with SE Asian species along a huge collection point called the "Wallace Lines".
Or the fact that we see polar bears either going exptinct or(in most cses) readapting to totally different food sources (Alaskan nd Canadian polar bears are starting to learn how to fish Salmon and char.

Mine is a conluison Frank. Yours IS (despite your protestations) a belief system.
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:51 am
@timur,
Quote:
disintrincate
That's a new one to me.
timur
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:53 am
@farmerman,
Typo, sorry..

Quote:
Dis`in´tri`cate
v. t. 1. To disentangle.
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 06:55 am
@timur,
welcome to my world. Its good to have company. Typos can be our friends
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:19 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Quote:
If the designer decided that "evolution" was the path
Then the designer also needs to take responsibility for the thousands of catastrophic and edaphic changes to the planet within which naturl slection works as organisms adapt.
Tinker tinker tinker.


Okay...no problem. The "accidental" properties of evolution may have been part of the plan.

Quote:
we see the events and results of microevolution and higher , and there seems to be natural selection in action and nobody notices the splitting and pile driving of the continents (the rending of African East and the colliding of Australia with Asia)


Once again...okay, no problem. The "accidental" properties of evolution may have been part of the plan.


Quote:
Weve already go huge species differences through the Sunda sea where Australian species are beginning to "collide" with SE Asian species along a huge collection point called the "Wallace Lines".
Or the fact that we see polar bears either going exptinct or(in most cses) readapting to totally different food sources (Alaskan nd Canadian polar bears are starting to learn how to fish Salmon and char.


Okay...but once again...no problem. The "accidental" properties of evolution may have been part of the plan.

Quote:
Mine is a conluison Frank. Yours IS (despite your protestations) a belief system.


I have no idea what a "conluison" is, FM...but what I am saying has absolutely nothing whatever to do with a "belief system"

I am not "believing" anything...I am not guessing anything.

I KNOW from logic that there is the possibility of a GOD...and IF THERE IS...then there is the possibility of intelligent design.

You just do not get it.
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:25 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
But science allows, nay, encourages, independent verification. Don't see much of that in religion or intelligent design flummery.


it is said yes, but it isn't true! AND tou can't always do that!
please sudy some more philosopy o science and jistory of sciene too. However I must say, the official history of science is extremely flawed.
But, with some intelligence, you can figure it out.

Quote:
Science is definitely human, as is religion, it's just the former has built in quality control measures. The latter fights against them tooth and nail.


Nope, evolutionsts do, they are trying desperately to cling to an idiotic theory
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:31 am
@farmerman,
Read that last bit of drivel from Quehoniaomath, FM, because that is what you sound like on the other side of the issue.

No meaningful give...just "this is the way it is (or isn't)!"
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:37 am
Have any of these clowns ever named "the designer?" Perhaps Frank the Phony Agnostic can help us out with that.
farmerman
 
  3  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:43 am
@Setanta,
I think Ill shut the closet door on the guy who tells me that "he doesn't do believing"'.

waka waka
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 08:53 am
@farmerman,
I do not do "believing."

And there may be a GOD...and if there is, there may be intelligent design.

I do not know.

The theists are coming from the position that there IS a GOD...and that "life" comes from that GOD. " Some of them insist that the "design" is described in the Bible. I guess that to be nuts. But they may be right that there is a GOD...and that GOD may have set everything (including the process of evolution) into motion in some way.

By derogating what I am saying, guys like you and Setanta are in effect saying that the process of evolution cannot possibly have happened as the result of something a GOD set into motion.

And then you dare to suggest that you guys are acting scientifically and logically.

You aren't.

And IF you are as intelligent as I see you to be, you are buffoons for refusing to acknowledge how far off the tracks you have gotten.



0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 09:04 am
@farmerman,
Good decision. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:32 pm
This is pretty good. If you have the time to watch:



Found it while I was reading this about abiogenesis: http://www.fromquarkstoquasars.com/abiogenesis-theory-origins-life/
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:49 pm
Anyone who suggests, even rhetorically, that the diversity of biota on this planet is the result of the action of a "god" assumes the burden of proving that there is a god (or a "designer") Those who do not take that line because they have seen no evidence for it have no burden of proof--their only burden of proof is for an evolutionary process. That evidence has been provided in abundance over the last decade.
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 07:59 pm
@Setanta,
I think that's why it's important to make one's statements carefully. If somebody says that they positively know there is no divine creator, they do take on the burden of proving a negative, which is practically impossible for a universal claim like that one.

To say that there is no evidence that such a being exists or is required to exist is a more defensible claim. The person claiming to know that the evidence points to or requires a divine explanation likewise burden him/herself with presenting that evidence and necessary inference based on it. Which nobody here has yet done.
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 15 Dec, 2014 08:08 pm
Incidentally, it's Freeman Dyson's birthday today. A quote:

“The public has a distorted view of science because children are taught in school that science is a collection of firmly established truths. In fact, science is not a collection of truths. It is a continuing exploration of mysteries.”
― Freeman Dyson
0 Replies
 
 

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