I don't think we know yet, for sure, whether we were or the universe was created using a design by an advanced intelligence. No evidence for it yet that I know of, but I don't completely rule it out.
I do know that scientific discoveries have often and do continue to surprise us.
Note that I don't mean the "creationism" kind of intelligent design taught by some Christians. (Of course the evidence is overwhelming that living organisms evolve.)
I also think it's at least plausible that * some * of the things attributed to the "supernatural" could turn out to be just occurrences caused by a much more highly advanced civilization that may or may not have an extremely different biology from us. We are only just beginning to see the blazing speeds at which technology advances. I'm sure we haven't yet imagined what civilizations who have had much, much more time to advance could be like.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -- Arthur C. Clarke
The main objections to alien visitation and alien intervention are, first the limitations imposed by the speed of light, and the second is the question "why here?' It's a staple of science "fiction" (fantasy would be a better word) that an advanced technology could get around the limitation imposed by the speed of light. But that is fiction, and one is here concerned with reality. Unless and until we know to a certainty that it is possible to travel at what would effectively be super-relativistic speeds, the idea of any alien life form travelling vast distances to meddle in our DNA or in the evolutionary process is preposterous. Which brings us to the second question. Why would any technological civilizaton come here? We live on the third planet out from a not particularly unusual star, in the galactic boondocks. What would bring anyone here? The science fantasy meme of alien visitation is just another god hypothesis dressed up in different garments. When people knew no better and thought the earth was the eenter of the universe, the idea of an anthropomorphic god creating us and then making us the focus of his attention may have seemed more plausible. Discovering just how massive the cosmos is, and how insignificant our planet is within that cosmos shoots that whole idea right in the ass. Trading highly technological aliens for god doesn't change the odds one bit.
@scates10,
I adopt the Dawkins position: saying an alien, or a god, created us doesn't answer the fundamental question of beginnings, you just change the question how did the aliens, or god, begin?
@hingehead,
Somebody should put you up for an award hinge for making such an astounding discovery.
@hingehead,
As we approach the spring semesters of most Unis and colleges in the US there are always a gaggle of these "Scientific IDers " who show up and set up "Winterim" convocations on Intelligent Design . I see one in Pa called "A scientific discipline or a belief set". I see that there will be several in late Jan and early Feb (just before the kids go back to classes) and these are always held in proximity to an Ivy or
PAchysandra League school (wherein some of the more active science departments live)
@Setanta,
CG Jung wrote a book on flying saucers that made the essential same conclusion.
@edgarblythe,
The answer to "why here?" is easy. What are we doing right now in our civilization? We are looking for planets with "The goldilocks zone" Id think that alien sensors would be as good as ours>
@farmerman,
But hearing our signal and doing anything about it - That's the puzzler.
@farmerman,
Maybe their sensors are good enough that they decided they didn't want to move in with a buncha hillbillies.
@edgarblythe,
Given the nature of the infinite ed it is very unlikely that any other intelligent life form is flowering at the same time we are. And if one is it will not receive our signals for a very considerable period of time and when it does we will be long gone so there will be no point in responding.
I'm assuming we are flowering to provide cynics with a smirk.
@farmerman,
Your general approach to "Winterim" convocations on Intelligent Design, which are gigs as well, has, in order to make sense, to assume the correctness of your stance and is therefore no more than a frisson of arousal caused by self-stroking. If it ever reaches the vinegar stroke we will all be under the cosh of scientific discipline and the attendant joys thereof. Purging the faint-hearts will be an urgent task.
@scates10,
scates10 wrote:
I don't think we know yet, for sure, whether we were or the universe was created using a design by an advanced intelligence. No evidence for it yet that I know of, but I don't completely rule it out.
I do know that scientific discoveries have often and do continue to surprise us.
Note that I don't mean the "creationism" kind of intelligent design taught by some Christians. (Of course the evidence is overwhelming that living organisms evolve.)
I also think it's at least plausible that * some * of the things attributed to the "supernatural" could turn out to be just occurrences caused by a much more highly advanced civilization that may or may not have an extremely different biology from us. We are only just beginning to see the blazing speeds at which technology advances. I'm sure we haven't yet imagined what civilizations who have had much, much more time to advance could be like.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -- Arthur C. Clarke
To me, this sounds like an endorsement of The Church of Scientology's version of intelligent design. Their propaganda differs from creationism but is just as unscientific.
Quote:The Los Angeles-based Church of Scientology today announced ownership of the undesignated designer proposed by the Intelligent Design (ID) political movement.
"Thetans are the designers," claims Church of Scientology spokesman T. Rob Gaylord. "In the primordial past, thetans brought the material universe into being largely for their own pleasure. The universe has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality from the fact that most thetans agree it exists. This existence includes the conscious act of design."
"Xenu, the tyrant ruler of the Galactic Confederacy," continued Gaylord, "has on several occasions contested ownership of the magical Wand of Design —most notably after the volcanic inception of the human race— but currently the Wand is held in common by thetans."
http://discoveringintelligentdesign.blogspot.com/2011/12/scientology-joins-id-fray.html
@spendius,
It's all for your entertainment, spendi. Nothing else.
@edgarblythe,
Perhaps but I was moe thinking that "Why here" for a poke at panspermia. If that would have happened, the alien "fathers and mothers" would surely have scoped out our planet for water, atmosphere etc.(I know that evidence doesn't bera this out but Im just going with proposal)
@farmerman,
Sure. I love to speculate about such things.
@spendius,
If Ida said that, theyd want to have me commited.
RIIIIIIGHT! Xenu the tyrant ruler of the Galactic Confederacy created and maintains the universe through his Magic Wand. Now there's a creation myth even more improbable than Jehovah waving his hand and creating 60 trillion stars just like that, if it's possible to have a more improbable story.
@MontereyJack,
How improbable is it from an evolutionist perspective that a blushing bride in a white dress with sequins should have to have the bridegroom's hand to help her cut a wedding cake as a prelude to copulation in a honeymoon suite?
OMG! Last night I tuned into the Bill Nye The Science Guy debate at just the right time as he says "If [Noah's Ark] ran aground safely in the Middle East 4000 years ago, why aren't there any kangaroo fossils between there and Australia?" At that point, Bill should've just dropped the mic and walked off stage. Also, the creationist guy believes there are only 7000 "kinds" (aka species). There are millions of species. This is comical but so is creationism.
@jcboy,
could you find the link? Nye did ths with Ken Ham a few years ago and Ham looked like a doofus. I love the "logic" of the missing kangaroos in Turkey
