Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Sorry you are not able to see that as logical...but you are not especially logical, Setanta.

That's hilarious, coming from you. So then, it is possible that the moon is made of orange juice, huh?

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Sorry you are not able to see that as logical...but you are not especially logical, Setanta.

That's hilarious, coming from you. So then, it is possible that the moon is made of orange juice, huh?

Discuss that with Hingehead. He's into that issue also. Wink

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Quote:
I doubt my argument could be taught as science...but it could be taught as logic.

That merely shows how clueless you are. It is a statement that could be exchanged for a rigorous requiremet on biology for some clap trap of ID"ism". As far as logic, you are not that dumb Frank.

Im actually gonna charge this up to your Italian heritage. Ive seen old Italin men 9at a Bosche court) argue points that are unarguable and they argue that green is blue. That's what youre really doing . Everyone here is arguing to you like you are capable of changing your mind when you've been told how wrong headed youre points are sometimes.
You've got a clear train of evidence in these silly statements. You've been reminded of their logic-free content. You, however, are unable and unwilling to admit when you are wrong.
Youre merely the Frank of old,with better manners. Your anger management had payed off marvelously but your arguments still fail to hold water.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO EXCELLENCE?

This--

Quote:

Even where a pupil is of low ability it is to be remembered that his attendance at secondary school is due to causes which are not of his making, and proper provision for him is a right which he is justified in claiming from society.

American Youth Commission. 1940.

What a business proposition that is!!

Your Jesuit headmaster would roll his eyes at such blatant profiteering and self-confession of child minding.

The full argument is in Chapter XIII: The Road to Life Adjustment, of Prof Hostadter's book on anti-intellectualism.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
I doubt my argument could be taught as science...but it could be taught as logic.

That merely shows how clueless you are. It is a statement that could be exchanged for a rigorous requiremet on biology for some clap trap of ID"ism". As far as logic, you are not that dumb Frank.

Im actually gonna charge this up to your Italian heritage. Ive seen old Italin men 9at a Bosche court) argue points that are unarguable and they argue that green is blue. That's what youre really doing . Everyone here is arguing to you like you are capable of changing your mind when you've been told how wrong headed youre points are sometimes.
You've got a clear train of evidence in these silly statements. You've been reminded of their logic-free content. You, however, are unable and unwilling to admit when you are wrong.
Youre merely the Frank of old,with better manners. Your anger management had payed off marvelously but your arguments still fail to hold water.

Are you saying that my argument is not logical...or that it is so logical it could be used in court to make a difference in the legal battles on the issue.

C'mon, Farmerman.

By now you realize that the comment is completely logical.

IF there is a GOD...IF, IN FACT, THERE IS A GOD INVOLVED IN REALITY...and if that GOD is a creator GOD...and a GOD that wanted to intelligently design things...

...there is at least the POSSIBLITY that there is intelligent design.

Your problem is that you really did not pay attention to what Spendius wrote several pages back about the difference between intelligent design and Intelligent Design. It was a significant point.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

fm cannot afford to pay attention to what I write. He has had me on and off Ignore as if I were his long-johns.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

logical.

IF there is a GOD...IF, IN FACT, THERE IS A GOD INVOLVED IN REALITY...and if that GOD is a creator GOD...and a GOD that wanted to intelligently design things...

...there is at least the POSSIBLITY that there is intelligent design

Now you sound like the Brothers Grimm. All Ive said since my rejoining this club, is that you've departed from the honorable theme of this thread and, by your untestable unfalsifiable set of cross supporting phrases, are actually PROVING THE TITLE OF THE THREAD(hint: it aint science in your mind either).
That's great but, sooner or later, Ill drop our as you don't have anything further to add.

AS far as splendid "id" v "ID", perhaps , had you been around several yers ago you would have read his initial "Drafts" of that. Now all we get are repeats of run on later editions .

3 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Ahhh...finally Hinge has someone with whom to discuss his moon/orange juice thingy. Wink

Sad, frank, that you see all the pieces, but not the picture.

2 Replies

@hingehead,

Glad to see somebody giving Apisa a taste of the MYOEPs.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Quote:
logical.

IF there is a GOD...IF, IN FACT, THERE IS A GOD INVOLVED IN REALITY...and if that GOD is a creator GOD...and a GOD that wanted to intelligently design things...

...there is at least the POSSIBLITY that there is intelligent design

Now you sound like the Brothers Grimm. All Ive said since my rejoining this club, is that you've departed from the honorable theme of this thread and, by your untestable unfalsifiable set of cross supporting phrases, are actually PROVING THE TITLE OF THE THREAD(hint: it aint science in your mind either).
That's great but, sooner or later, Ill drop our as you don't have anything further to add.

AS far as splendid "id" v "ID", perhaps , had you been around several yers ago you would have read his initial "Drafts" of that. Now all we get are repeats of run on later editions .

Farmerman...if you would open your mind...you would see that my initial comment is completely logical...and on topic.

IF there is the possibility of a GOD...there is the possibility of intelligent design.

There is no getting away from that.

That does not mean that a GOD is necessary for intelligent design...and it does not mean that if there is a GOD...there must be intelligent design.

But it does mean that if there is the possibility of a GOD...there is the possibility of intelligent design.

The implications are: Anyone who suggests there is no possibility of intelligent design...must first suggest there is no possibility of a GOD.

0 Replies

@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

Quote:
Ahhh...finally Hinge has someone with whom to discuss his moon/orange juice thingy. Wink

Sad, frank, that you see all the pieces, but not the picture.

I see the entire thing, Hingehead. I am trying to get you to see it also.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Frank doesn't understand the use of the word "if."

Quote:

if
if/Submit
conjunction
1. introducing a conditional clause.
synonyms: on (the) condition that, provided (that), providing (that), presuming (that), supposing (that), assuming (that), as long as, given that, in the event that
"if the rain holds out, we can walk"
on the condition or supposition that; in the event that.
"if you have a complaint, write to the director"
(with past tense) introducing a hypothetical situation.
"if you had stayed, this would never have happened"
2. despite the possibility that; no matter whether.
3. (often used in indirect questions) whether.
"he asked if we would like some coffee"
5. expressing an opinion.
"that's an awfully long walk, if you don't mind my saying so"
6. expressing surprise or regret.
"well, if it isn't Frank!"
7. with implied reservation.
and perhaps not. used to admit something as being possible but regarded as relatively insignificant. "if there was any weakness, it was naiveté"
despite being (used before an adjective or adverb to introduce a contrast).
"she was honest, if a little brutal"
synonyms: although, albeit, but, yet, while; More
noun
noun: if; plural noun: ifs
1. a condition or supposition.
"there are so many ifs and buts in the policy"
synonyms: uncertainty, doubt; condition, stipulation, provision, proviso, constraint, precondition, requirement, specification, restriction
"there is one if in all this"

Anything following the word "if" has to be logical and testable. "gods" cannot be tested, and therefore not logical. In philosophy and science, there is no way to prove any gods exist. "IF god exists" cannot be tested or proven, so the word "if" is a conjunction without anything worth considering in logic or philosophy.

It's impossible to test.

2 Replies

@farmerman,

All Apisa is saying is that if you can't rule out God you can't rule out design. Even if the design is a load of Pollocks.

I can't see what there is to argue about. Rule out God first. Not as a faith. Doing that concedes the case to the other side. Or other sides.

Setanta's spurious dribbling about a God and not a design is neither here nor there. It assumes we are all stupid which I suppose is understandable in someone who thinks we all are. Which he must do to present such an argument for our consideration. If he doesn't think we are stupid then it must be him who is.

Still relying on the assertions I see. Don't think there is any non-repetitive aspect to assertions from one end of the thread to the other simply because the wording is changed. Sometimes.

If I do repeat myself occasionally it is because you will neither accept an obvious point nor rebut it. And that is certainly not science. It's ******* indignation.

And until you kneel at the altar rails, repent and beg forgiveness there is nothing you can do about changing.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I thought you said you were done here ci.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank doesn't understand the use of the word "if."

Quote:
if
if/Submit
conjunction
1. introducing a conditional clause.
synonyms: on (the) condition that, provided (that), providing (that), presuming (that), supposing (that), assuming (that), as long as, given that, in the event that
"if the rain holds out, we can walk"
on the condition or supposition that; in the event that.
"if you have a complaint, write to the director"
(with past tense) introducing a hypothetical situation.
"if you had stayed, this would never have happened"
2. despite the possibility that; no matter whether.
3. (often used in indirect questions) whether.
"he asked if we would like some coffee"
5. expressing an opinion.
"that's an awfully long walk, if you don't mind my saying so"
6. expressing surprise or regret.
"well, if it isn't Frank!"
7. with implied reservation.
and perhaps not. used to admit something as being possible but regarded as relatively insignificant. "if there was any weakness, it was naiveté"
despite being (used before an adjective or adverb to introduce a contrast).
"she was honest, if a little brutal"
synonyms: although, albeit, but, yet, while; More
noun
noun: if; plural noun: ifs
1. a condition or supposition.
"there are so many ifs and buts in the policy"
synonyms: uncertainty, doubt; condition, stipulation, provision, proviso, constraint, precondition, requirement, specification, restriction
"there is one if in all this"

Anything following the word "if" it has to be logical and testable. "gods" cannot be tested, and therefore not logical.

I understand the use of the word "if", ci. No need for you to pretend that I do not.

Here is something else that IS logical...and it uses the word "IF":

If "a" equals "b"...

and "b" equals "c"...

then "c" equals "a."

Totally logical...and presented in an "if" context and structure.

You, ci, and others here...do not like the implications of the comment that you are trying so hard (and unsuccessfully) to show to be illogical.

But the comment IS logical...and the implications flow whether you like them or not.

IF there is the possibility of a GOD...then there is the possibility of intelligent design.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

That works with most sentences that beings with "if," when the condition allows it to be test. God cannot be tested. You fail Logic 101.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Just rule out God scientifically ci. We can do the design bit after that.

Get on with it.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

That works with most sentences that beings with "if," when the condition allows it to be test. God cannot be tested. You fail Logic 101.

I have never asked anyone to test if there is a GOD. I have asked that the possibility of a GOD be tested.

Are you ruling out the POSSIBILITY of a GOD, ci?

Perhaps you ought to be concerned with your own logic grades.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You don't even know when you contradict yourself from one sentence to the next.
You wrote,

Quote:

I have never asked anyone to test if there is a GOD. I have asked that the possibility of a GOD be tested.

Are you ruling out the POSSIBILITY of a GOD, ci?

Asking me the question is asking. You're off the deep end on this subject. Better you leave it before you make a further fool of yourself.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You don't even know when you contradict yourself from one sentence to the next.
You wrote,
Quote:
I have never asked anyone to test if there is a GOD. I have asked that the possibility of a GOD be tested.

Are you ruling out the POSSIBILITY of a GOD, ci?

Asking me the question is asking. You're off the deep end on this subject. Better you leave it before you make a further fool of yourself.

I am not making a fool of myself...I am expressing views with people in a public forum.

If you do not understand "the possibility" feature...there is not much I can do to help you.

As for me "leaving"...I think not. But you did say you were leaving...and here you still are. What's with that?

0 Replies

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