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Intelligent Design Theory: Science or Religion?

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2012 02:34 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Pheidippedes ran the first marathon barefoot over untarmaced tracks. You need cushion soled Nike trainers and laced refreshments. Is that progress from an evolutionary perspective.

Considering that the fellow Pheidippedes died after reaching Athens, I'd say an unqualified yes. (and I use New Balance 993s and these:
https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQOGJvdsOr9OOBMYsJgmF47qlNr_sdYqx0g1UZ-NU672QDIXru6 )
Of course, the rest of the story which you and everybody leaves out, is that he had already run 150 miles over the previous two days before trekking 25 miles from the battlefield at Marathon back to Athens. (It was your Queen for which the Marathon was extended to 26.2 miles, so she could have a better view. Meh. That is not progress.)

Definitions to follow.
Joe(That won't be evolution, it will be revelation)Nation
PS: Stung on the scrottie? Do you have no sense of common decency?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2012 03:13 pm
@Joe Nation,
Actually, I think the Pheidippedes story is a myth.

You're not going to define evolution, scientist or a Christian church are you? I had better forget it and just put up with you imitating a parrot. I'm used to that sort of thing on here.

I'm also used to arguments against teaching evolution in schools being rebutted on the grounds that I'm drunk or resentful or have my head up my arse or have never had sex or I'm an arsehole or off my meds. It seems American logic works that way. It avoids confronting the arguments.

If I had any sense of decency I wouldn't know why teaching evolution in schools is ridiculous.
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 07:53 am
@spendius,
Evolution: Changes in species over time due to changes in environment over time.

Scientist: A person who says "What? How? Why? Who then finds testable evidence to answer the questions and then allows all other persons to test the questions, the evidence and any answers which arose from said evidence.

Christian Churches: Religious organizations which existed briefly near Damascus and a few other places about 45CE until the Epistles from the self-proclaimed Apostle Paul arrived. Then they were subsumed into something entirely differently than that spoken of by Christ Jesus.
~~
There you go.

Myths about Greek runners and many other things are what some people base the way they see the world. They have a deep fear that the world and the universe could, in fact, be unguided.

That unguidedness doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Joe(I kind of like it.)Nation


farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 08:12 am
@Joe Nation,
spendius was always too busy patting himself on the back for being the oly one who understood science herein. SO much [atting that he raised big cloud of dust and I havent heard him for many a month.

Does he even exist anymore?

How do I know that those questions youve just answered havent been floating around the unoverse for several light years?

Anyway, spendi is probably out celebrating his subservience to the ole lady in charge.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 09:28 am
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
Evolution: Changes in species over time due to changes in environment over time.


That's just a long-winded way of saying **** happens.

Quote:
Scientist: A person who says "What? How? Why? Who then finds testable evidence to answer the questions and then allows all other persons to test the questions, the evidence and any answers which arose from said evidence.


And decides what the questions relate to. Leaving out those question which it is not politic or polite or profitable to ask or, indeed, even ever wishing to know the answer to. Such is life.

Would you like to return to life in the vicinity of Damascus in 45 AD?

Quote:
That unguidedness doesn't bother me in the slightest.


That's bravado unthought through. You cannot avoid being guided. And what does it reduce us, and all our works, to?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 09:37 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I havent heard him for many a month.


What's that supposed to mean? You replied to a post of mine on June 1st 2012 at 11.30 pm.

Why can't you stop moidering yourself about me?

Quote:
Anyway, spendi is probably out celebrating his subservience to the ole lady in charge.


Sour grapes. Nobody can lay a glove on it. Pure magic and science knows not the What, the How or the Why of. I would apply to join the Commonwealth if I was President.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 01:02 pm
@spendius,
An American commentator just used the expression "sour grapes" regarding the NYT's grumpy comments about our festivities and said that they were covered "wall to wall" on your TV.

And President Obama used the word "indispensible" about the special relationship between our two countries. And he needn't have done. "Very important" would have been expected.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 11:06 am
@spendius,
'**** happens' doesn't say enough about the reasons for changes in species, you can't leave that out, people will start to think stupid things, like evolution is guided by supernatural forces.

Your remarks about science make me think you're depressed.
I suppose so does "**** happens."
I hope you are okay.


Quote:
Would you like to return to life in the vicinity of Damascus in 45 AD?
No. I am quite content with this present life, a little regretful that I shan't be here in another forty years. I have high hopes.

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That unguidedness doesn't bother me in the slightest.

That's bravado unthought through. You cannot avoid being guided. And what does it reduce us, and all our works, to?


Nah. Ain't no strings on me. Except the ones I choose or find I cannot avoid (the IRS. My bank, so very insistent about mortgage payments!.). Being unguided frees us and our works, it does a really nice job at freeing our loves and joys, it allows us to be, Spendius, really be.
Our triumphs are our own.
Our failures are our own.
We need not, in our moment of glory, give any of it up to some silent god.
We need not, in our moments of ashes, blame that same silent god for any of our troubles.
We are here, the result of trillions and trillions of changes over time, that's not a reduction unless you are someone so depressed as to say '**** happens.', it's a revelation about who we are. The present.

Joe(denizens of the four percent of this universe which has some sort of physical nature.)Nation



spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 01:44 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
'**** happens' doesn't say enough about the reasons for changes in species, you can't leave that out, people will start to think stupid things, like evolution is guided by supernatural forces.


There's tectonic movements, climate change and cosmic events. All of which are easily thought of as guided by supernatural forces for those who choose so.

I know nothing about depression. I bow to your superior knowledge. To make aspersions about me without any further explanation than that my remarks about science make you think I'm depressed is a bottom of the cess-pit gambit. I was resentful the other day.

My answer to your "What? How? Why? questions has been not so neatly side-stepped which proves, I needn't think it, that you're a devious wimp.

But not to worry Joe. Everybody else on your side in this thread has side-stepped them as well which is my evidence for my definition of science as you choose to define it.

Quote:
Being unguided frees us and our works, it does a really nice job at freeing our loves and joys, it allows us to be, Spendius, really be.


So it does. And everybody else as well. Are you ready for that? Unguided my arse!! You're a clockwork orange.

Why do you hope I'm okay. What business is it of yours?

Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 02:27 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
There's tectonic movements, climate change and cosmic events. All of which are easily thought of as guided by supernatural forces for those who choose so.

There's no one who chooses to proclaim any of these are guided by supernatural forces who can provide any testable evidence for same.
Unless you have some sources that I haven't seen or read.
Yes? N0?
Quote:
Quote:
Scientist: A person who says "What? How? Why? Who then finds testable evidence to answer the questions and then allows all other persons to test the questions, the evidence and any answers which arose from said evidence.


You answered:
Quote:
And decides what the questions relate to. Leaving out those question which it is not politic or polite or profitable to ask or, indeed, even ever wishing to know the answer to. Such is life.


Is this who, what question/answer I side-stepped?
Huh.
The problem with your answer is it assumes some worldwide central Scientific deciding control authority over which questions are/are not asked. No. Can't happen worldwide. That was the Bush Administration to some extent, not scientists. Luckily, we have the Germans, the French and the Dutch to plug away at the questions the American GOP finds icky.

Even the British.

I see where your attitude comes from:
Quote:
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, the group of scientists today say British science is at risk of losing its competitive edge because the best “blue sky” experiments are not getting money.
They blame the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council (EPSRC) for favouring research that meets the “policy objectives” set by Whitehall, such as whether the project has obvious economic benefits.
The letter has been signed by Nobel Laureates including Sir Andre Geim, who discovered the “wonder material” of graphene, which is the thinnest and strongest ever measured, and Sir Simon Donaldson, who specialises in “four dimensional space-time”.

emphasis mine. May 2012
Note that it's not the scientists who are trying to decide what the questions are, it's the fricking politicians. So, you are pointing your finger at the wrong people.
meh.
Oddest question I have ever been asked:
Quote:
Why do you hope I'm okay. What business is it of yours?


I like people, I wish them well. You are included in that.
You are depressed.

Joe(be well)Nation
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 03:24 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
There's no one who chooses to proclaim any of these are guided by supernatural forces who can provide any testable evidence for same.


It is claimed that the very existence of such things, and everything else, is due to supernatural forces. It would be better to say by forces beyond human comprehension because they are natural by being. And there is no one who can prove otherwise. If there was any proof either way there would be no argument you silly moocow.

Quote:
The problem with your answer is it assumes some worldwide central Scientific deciding control authority over which questions are/are not asked. No. Can't happen worldwide. That was the Bush Administration to some extent, not scientists. Luckily, we have the Germans, the French and the Dutch to plug away at the questions the American GOP finds icky.


I assumed nothing. And you side-stepped the question again. Are you sure there are no experiments which are possible that you would find icky? Are you up for the unguided deciding what to try out? All the governments you list have ethics committes. Maybe the North Koreans are an exception. Are we lucky to have the North Koreans then? If you think so you are a Commie.

What the group of "scientists" mean by British science is at risk (only at risk) of losing its competitive edge is that the particular ones have the begging bowl out.

Quote:
Note that it's not the scientists who are trying to decide what the questions are, it's the fricking politicians.


It has to be because politicians have to raise the money, decide on research locations, energy availability, training etc. Are you suggesting that scientists can go off on one on their own say so? Are you nuts?

Quote:
I like people, I wish them well. You are included in that.


Forget it. I'm not arsed whether you like me or not and I don't give two fucks about your best wishes. I'm not into action at a distance. As if you wishing me well could have any effect on me.

Quote:
You are depressed.


Say that once more, or that I'm in the Taliban, and there will be no further conversation with you. It's girl's school playground shite.
0 Replies
 
CTD
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 06:59 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Your baby trick of trying to line up those who don't think the fossil record shows anything like you claimed with a denial of the fossil record ought to be banned from A2K because it insults the intelligence of all its members.

Yes it does. Just be glad he chickened out. More and more such insults would certainly have followed.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 07:07 pm
@CTD,
Now whats he attempting to say about the "fossil record". The only fossil record he knows about is when Bob Dylan first recorded "Blowin in the wind"
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 07:39 pm
@farmerman,
If one had no information but what is known for certain of the fossil record, one would if one were not insulated from reason conclude most emphatically that evolution happens. When somebody rejects that fossil record, I figure they have not examined it or are too hostile to grasp what is before them. I then quit trying with such.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 07:57 pm
@edgarblythe,
By appearing sub impressed at stuff like the "fossil record",Spendi merely tries to appear that his vault of knowledge is superior to all others. That IS a symptom of a superiority complex and which usually tags along with clinical depression.

Its interesting weve never made the connection before Joe brought it up in passing. (Least I hadnt)

Now spendi is getting cheesed off over Joes comments .

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 08:52 pm
@farmerman,
Hehehehehe okay bye now
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jun, 2012 03:41 am
@farmerman,
Do you mean that you knew that a superiority complex (see my profile) "usually" tags along with clinical depression and you have had me in your sights for 8 years now and you never made the connection in all that time?

Sheesh!! You are a bit slow on the uptake aren't you. And it takes a thicko like Joe to inspire your intellect.

What is clinical depression? You seem to know more about it than I do.

Anybody would get cheesed off at some twat saying that they "are" depressed.

Joe is simply lost for words and remembered one of his peer group's standard insults. And it has over-excited you.

Sir Edmund Hillary chose Blowing in the Wind as his one record on Desert Island Discs so I'm in good company.

Your type of discourse is always tagged along with having a nappy full of dried **** and we wouldn't want anything like that educating a nation's kids now would we.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jun, 2012 04:03 am
@spendius,
BTW--Wiki says--

Quote:
"Blowin' in the Wind" has been covered by hundreds of artists.


Poor old Wiki eh. It is reduced to saying "hundreds" because it doesn't know the actual number.

Here's a few it knows about--

Quote:
Other covers have been by The Hollies, country guitar virtuoso Chet Atkins, Odetta, Dolly Parton, folk chanteuse Judy Collins, The Kingston Trio, Marianne Faithfull (1964 single), Jackie DeShannon, The Seekers, soul singer Sam Cooke, blues belter Etta James, Duke Ellington, Neil Young (with air raid sound effects), the Doodletown Pipers, Marlene Dietrich, Bobby Darin, Bruce Springsteen, Elvis Presley, Sielun Veljet, on their single "Blowin' in the Wind", Stevie Wonder (whose version became a top 10 hit on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1966), John Fogerty, The Hooters on their 1994 album The Hooters Live, Me First and the Gimme Gimmes, and was performed by Jenny in the award-winning film Forrest Gump (sung by Joan Baez), and was lampooned in Me, Myself & Irene.


Were they all clinically depressed then?

Your blustering is pathetic fm.

It's a song about the extinction of the human race by confining sexual activity to wanking. Obviously.

If every other species on earth could articulate their interests I feel sure they would all agree that that is the answer.

The fossil record represents a snapshot of life on earth equivalent to conducting an opinion poll with somebody's little toe nail.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jun, 2012 04:09 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I then quit trying with such.


It doesn't take much to get you in quitter mode.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Jun, 2012 04:13 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Sir Edmund Hillary chose Blowing in the Wind as his one record on Desert Island Discs so I'm in good company.

Charlie Manson's favorite recording artist is Dylan also. So Im not sure about what "company youre in" has any relevance.


Quote:
Do you mean that you knew that a superiority complex (see my profile) "usually" tags along with clinical depression and you have had me in your sights for 8 years now and you never made the connection in all that time?

I only knew that you are a rude, pompous asshole whos primary pleasures in life are self-aggrandizement , criticizing anyone's posts and quaffing "near beer". I never made the connection between your complex and depression simply because you werent that important to me.
 

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