What is it with These Guys ??

I imagine the child was scared and the more scared she got the more out of control she got.

We don't know yet the circumstances and I think premature to blame the parent and child.

In any event I don't see what damage a little five year old is going to do that is going to require handcuffs and shackles.

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Noddy24 wrote:

While I have some sympathy for this five year old, I have much more sympathy for the other five year olds in the kindergarten class who are being short-changed on education because of the extra attention that this one child demands. I think the well being of 24 students is more important than the well being of one student.

Yes. As a teacher (admittedly of much older students) I have a great amount of sympathy for the other students whose education is constantly being short-changed by one (often more than one) student who is constantly demanding attention of this sort. This is not unusual in what I term "troubled schools".... those that are trying as best they can in an extremely demanding social environment. I've spent most of my working life in these schools & am very impressed with the achievements, despite the difficulties. I also have a great deal of sympathy for the teachers who have to wear this sort of behaviour, on a regular basis, in the process of trying to do their their jobs as best they can. I believe most teachers try to do their best with their students. Possibly, just possibly, the outrageous behaviour had very little to do with anything that had actually happened in the classroom. Teachers know that & try to deal with the situation as best they can, with the welfare of the whole class in mind.

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In trying to achieve whole class satisfaction lets just throw this child to the wolves.

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Sorry? I don't think I was talking of throwing this child "to the wolves". What I'm trying to say is there is only so much time in each class. A teacher has a responsibility to all the children in the class. Constantly having to deal with the sort of behaviour from one student, as described here, would be extremely time consuming & stressful & it also would be at the expense of the other 24 or 29 students, whatever the class size is. And it is very unlikely they'd be sitting politely in their desks while the outburst was occurring! I don't know what the situation is in the US, particularly Florida, but where I work it is likely that the child would have been receiving regular counselling & that there would be some sort of plan of action if her behaviour threatened to become uncontrollable. It doesn't sound like that was the case, given that the police were called in. I think it's unreasonable that that teacher & that class had to cope with that situation without proper support. Teachers can only do so much & dealing with large groups of children at one time is very different to dealing with an out of control child, one to one.

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Self-righteous indignation seeks a release Miss Kitty, best just to ignore it . . .

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OK, OK!

But hell, you get SO tired of well meaning folk telling you what you should have done, when often they have really have no idea of what the situation is actually like. (& hey, Florida doesn't sound exactly easy-peasy to me.)

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

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Just following up but it appears that the teachers involved did try some of the things squinney mentioned earlier in this thread (and the other one) over the last few months.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/23/Southpinellas/Textbook_case_of_disc.shtml

Two other items of interest on this have also come out in the last 2 days:

1. The police had been called for problems with this same child 10 days prior to the incident we have been discussing and..

2. Apparently two of the 4 police officers that responded were on their very first day of duty. That may explain (not excuse!) the mishandling (IMO) of the girl.

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msolga wrote:

OK, OK!

But hell, you get SO tired of well meaning folk telling you what you should have done, when often they have really have no idea of what the situation is actually like. (& hey, Florida doesn't sound exactly easy-peasy to me.)

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I just feel sorry for the children who get lost in the cracks. In this discussion it is my main concern. There must an answer for them somewhere before they grow up and become even bigger problems.

I am not really a big fan of tough love but favor sympathy and compassion coupled with firmness and consistency.

I did over do it.

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fishin' wrote:

Just following up but it appears that the teachers involved did try some of the things squinney mentioned earlier in this thread (and the other one) over the last few months.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/23/Southpinellas/Textbook_case_of_disc.shtml

Two other items of interest on this have also come out in the last 2 days:

1. The police had been called for problems with this same child 10 days prior to the incident we have been discussing and..

2. Apparently two of the 4 police officers that responded were on their very first day of duty. That may explain (not excuse!) the mishandling (IMO) of the girl.

I don't think it excuses or explains their mishandling of the five year old girl. In fact since this wasn't something just popped up something should have already been in the works to correct the situation before shackling a five year old.

If the parent was a fault, someone should have reported her.

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From fishin's admirable link:

Quote:

Among the dynamics at work that day: two school staffers were forced to focus exclusively on the girl during dismissal, one of the busiest and most stressful times of the day; the girl's behavior had prompted the school to call city police a few days earlier, and the mother had complained.

As I suspected, this was not the first time that the child was out of control--and the mother according to this story does not seem to see that her kid needs help.

I find it very interesting that the video tape was released by the mother's lawyer.

I'm not advocating dropping this child in a crack somewhere and sealing the crack. I'm speculating that she does not belong in a regular classroom where her own behavior prevents her from doing well.

Dismissal time is particularly dangerous. If just one of those other twenty-four kids through lack of supervision had climbed on the wrong school bus....

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I agree; from indications so far, it seems she belongs in another kind of classroom.

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Maybe. But she definitely needs some proper help. It's well overdue.

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msolga wrote:

Maybe. But she definitely needs some proper help. It's well overdue.

nawwww.. it's better to clap 'er in irons and freak 'er out a little bit. instill the proper fear, er, i mean respect, for authority.

now all we need is some weeble sized pick axes and we could put the little malcontent to work breaking rocks into gravel to sell to the chinese to lower the trade deficit.

same goes for all the other little weebo-terrorists fostering fear among the citizenry... harumphhh!

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It was a HUGE over reaction.
The teacher should just have beat this little girls ass,and called her parents to pick her up.
She would not be allowed back in school until she learned how to behave,AND apologized to the teacher.
That would have solved the problem.

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mysteryman wrote:

..The teacher should just have beat this little girls ass,and called her parents to pick her up.

... & then the teacher would have even bigger problems on her hands ... of the legal variety!

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Nope,not in my world.

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But it would happen in the real world!

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I look at things with a common sense attitude.
If my kid needs his ass beat,then the teacher has the right to do it.
I got my butt beat several times when in school by the principal,and I didnt turn into a mass murderer at all.
If more schools would do it,that would reduce the problems in school.
And if the parents of these little monsters cant teach their kids to behave,then the kids dont belong in school.

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Ah - another who thinks that using violence is the way to curb violence - in the face of all the research on the matter - not to mention common sense.

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Such logic!

Bam!!!

I'll
Bam!

teach you

Bam!!

to

Bam!!

hit people!

Bam!

And, of course, that is exactly waht you do.

Sheeesh.

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What is it with These Guys ??

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