What is it with These Guys ??

Piffka wrote:

Why am I not surprised that this child appears to have African American heritage?.....

Piffka

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you suggesting that the school is racist in it's attitude?

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Yes. It wouldn't surprise me to find that to be true.

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Well I'm in no position to agree or disagree with that, though I'd hope that wasn't the case. I don't know anything about the school apart from what I've read here. But I would have thought it was her behaviour that was the problem.

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

Lash wrote:
"They set my baby up."

not to mention, that's the only thing you got out of the article ?? i know that you are much, much smarter than that lash.

put the agenda down for a minute and use the fine mind that i know you have. you'll see that this is not right. :wink:

WTF are you talking about?

It's a boring story. Happens all the time. Yes, the comment by the mother was the only thing of value I saw. Twas funny. The child was 'set up'.

I'm just relieved the child wasn't the fourth kid this week who was raped and murdered by a known sex offender in FL.

We have parents calling 911 to get help raising their kids. The place is going to hell in a handbasket.

PS--- The story about the child sounds like she wasn't responding rationally. Do you think they thought she was dangerously psychotic (to herself or another child) or something? It doesn't take police to control a 5 year old, but it is procedure here to admit them to a psychiatric facility. OR-- if school officials were to try to subdue a child that turned out to have a dangerous physical response--SHE could become injured through her own resistance, and the school would be liable. May sound silly, but it happens very frequently. It may have been for liability purposes, rather than for the reasons many here seem to think.

Not that I'm making any kind of judgment about whether that was necessary... Just trying to see if there's any possible legitimate/understandable reason this was done.

On the face of it, doesn't sound like there could be a sensible reason, but I think it's good to look at it from every possible angle before passing judgment.

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This is a perfect example of a waste of police resources. That's why Forida just passed that helpful new law. This child was a danger and a threat. The teacher should have used her LEGAL option and just shot the kid.

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Should've shot the teacher, obviously.

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fishin' wrote:

revel wrote:
If the child was in a tizzy fit then what choice did they have but to restrain her if they had to remove her? Some kind of health services should have been called instead who knew what they were doing.

That's nice in theory but it doens't hold up in practice. Social Services can't do much with a call from a school that a child is throwing a temper tantrum. They'd have no legal authority to intervene unless the parent requests their intervention.

If a child is arrested then the social services agencies are usually required to intervene and that is how they get brought into the process over-riding the parents wishes.

Since the parent in this case has been at odds with the school on numerous previous occassions I suspect we'll find out down the road that the parent/child were already referred to some sort of social services agency and refused.

It appears thusfar, that the school did exactly what they should have done. The police that responded are the ones that screwed up. They should have contacted social services and had a social worker respond with them.

If it is like you say then maybe you are right about the teacher's part in this. I really don't know too much about laws and things. You are also right about the police being in the wrong in not having some kind of social worker to respond with them. I mean, I just can't stress enough that this a little child and not a teenager. There is a difference.

Maybe the teachers were forced to resort to having a video to witness the behavior in order to get make the parent do something about the problem.

I guess we will have wait for further developements.

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I am just reading along and haven't watched the video.

I also don't know about negative and positive reinforcement concepts - I am not a parent or teacher - but will read up on them; I would hope teachers know about that.

Fishin's points made sense to me, as did Setanta's comment on the jelly bellies sugar content, and .. people's comments on negative reinforcement.

Something Piffka said the teacher said is creepy to me. Saying you were bad is not a help, to me. A behavior is bad, or not right, but I think it's ugly to make a child feel she is personally bad, no good.

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Here is a video of the incident.

http://www.sptimes.com/

I don't see any jelly beans; maybe I got the wrong story?

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The jelly bean counting lesson was prior to the video taping. The student did something and the teacher removed her jelly beans. That set off the tantrum, from what I understand.

From the video, I further got the understanding from those talking while taping, that this was a second room after the classroom that the child had been placed in while waiting for police. She had been destructive in the other room (principals office?) also.

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This reminds me of the birth control commercial going round a month or so ago... it was in Swedish, I think.

Really sorry to hear that this happens all the time, Lash. Do you mean police coming into classrooms?

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First, all. Let me say this. I do NOT believe in corporal punishment, but I do believe in rewarding small children with a touch and a hug.

Now that I have cleared that up about myself, let me say also that I do not think the race of the child had one thing to do with the treatment of her, but should it be, heads should roll.

Osso, those terms are argot for behavior modification.

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As to the question of possible racism, and although i would not normally be given to such statements, in Florida, it wouldn't surprise me. Florida has that good, old-fashioned Southern attitude which has disappeared largely from the rest of the South--if it's Federal Law, that's good enough for us, we'll ignore it. When that political hack Katherine Harris was in charge of the State Board of Elections, a privately owned company was hired to review their voter registration lists to compare them to criminal records. This was done only in precincts with a majority African-American population, and people were dropped from the voter rolls simply because they had the same name, or date of birth of someone on the list of convicted criminals, with no further checks. Appelate reviews of inmate suits have again and again noted the disproportionately high number of African-Americans in Florida prisons, and that white offenders are much more likely to get diversion programs rather than penitentiary time than are African-Americans.

I briefly lived in Florida to help out a friend who was having chemo-therapy. I lived in a gated community in which there were no black people. It was possible to go days, even weeks without ever seeing a black or brown face.

Knowing full well the prejudice of which i can be accused, i'm willing to state that i consider Florida to be a racist place, officially speaking, and possibly the most racist of the states.

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I used to care for a very emotional little girl. When she was 2 or 3 she would have tantrums on a daily basis. I kept trying to explain to the parents that we needed all to be consistent and we needed to set boundaries for her. And, I knew she had a problem with sugar.

Her parents poo-pood me for almost a year and then one day little E completely lost it in Toys R Us. She screamed at the tops of her lungs, she threw her self on the floor. When I tried to carry her out of the store, she raked my cheeks with her nails and pulled out handfulls of my hair. I put her down and stood by her until she calmed enough for us to leave. All because I wouldn't buy her M&Ms.

I told her, after we left and she'd calmed down, that I would never bring her into a store again. I never did. I took steps to set boundaries which she would have to live by while she was with me and I stayed consistent. I told her parents what I was doing and they followed suit. It worked.

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No argument here that the treatment was wildly inappropriate, and I'll certainly not deny there's somethin' seriously wrong with Florida in general - of late its made California seem almost an island of sanity - but Undisciplined Kids Get Older

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By 5 years of age, tantrums should be a thing of the past.

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Set, you may be right, especially in the 2002 election, but I think that had more to do with numbers than bias, understand? I don't know about the rest of the state, but here where I live, I have seen absolutely no evidence of bias in the socialization process; however, I don't really look for it.

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Amazing what you get when you Google "5 year old handcuffed"

http://www.google.com/search?q=5+year+old+handcuffed&hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2004-51,GGLD:en&start=0&sa=N

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Lash wrote:

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Lash wrote:
"They set my baby up."

not to mention, that's the only thing you got out of the article ?? i know that you are much, much smarter than that lash.

put the agenda down for a minute and use the fine mind that i know you have. you'll see that this is not right. :wink:

WTF are you talking about?

....On the face of it, doesn't sound like there could be a sensible reason, but I think it's good to look at it from every possible angle before passing judgment.

umm. i was actually trying complement your intelligence, though now, having read it again, it does come off as condescending. sorry. it just surprised me that you chose the one stupid thing in the article to comment on. that doesn't mean i think you're wrong about how bizarre it sounds...

i understand what you mean about the angles. it is difficult for me to envision anything that would cause a child to be handcuffed for being, admittedly, a bit of a brat. considering, as revel said, that they'd had previous incidents with the girl, you'd think they's have at least put her in the ld or yd classes or something. are they even still allowed to have those programs ?

i also agree with you that an awful lot of people are divesting themselves of responsibility in the raising of their children and simply put it off on the schools or government or whomever. don't really understand that myself.
but it's taking it's toll on society in several ways.

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I'm with fishin'. He wrote:

Quote:

Since the parent in this case has been at odds with the school on numerous previous occassions I suspect we'll find out down the road that the parent/child were already referred to some sort of social services agency and refused.

Unfortunately when a school child is corrected by a teacher or a member of the administrative staff there are parents who take this correction as a personal insult and threaten to sue.

I have a some sympathy for a five year old who has been permitted five years of out-of-bounds behavior. While she is a young child, a tantrum of this scale is not typical five-year-old behavior. My guess that her mother has blamed the school for her child's inability to be asked to be an alert, cooperative member of the kindergarten class.

While I have some sympathy for this five year old, I have much more sympathy for the other five year olds in the kindergarten class who are being short-changed on education because of the extra attention that this one child demands. I think the well being of 24 students is more important than the well being of one student.

More and more frequently police are summoned to elementary, intermediate and junior high schools. Parents threaten teachers with law suits. "Don't you touch my kid. You put one finger on my kid and I'll see you in court."

Police are allowed to touch kids

As for the handcuffs: The child could not be reasoned with. The child had every intention of inflicting as much damage as she could on the classroom and on the teachers. I don't think the handcuffs were a good idea, but they may have been the best possible action under the circumstances.

Talking about gentle restraint is all very well --providing that you are allowed to touch the child and providing that you are strong enough to hold her and prevent her from hurting herself or anyone else.

This is a very imperfect world.

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What is it with These Guys ??

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