Death Penalty Opponents, This Is Who You Champion

Ticomaya wrote:

Perhaps we have better police and catch our criminals, rather than let them run among the general population?

Well, you have the highest prison population worldwide.

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2002/2003 numbers from the British Home Office:

There were 873 deaths recorded as homicides in England and Wales based on cases recorded by the police in 2002/03. This is an increase of 1 per cent on 2001/02.
65 per cent of homicide victims were male.
The most common method of killing at 33 per cent involved a sharp instrument.
Firearms were used in eight per cent of homicides, a decrease of 18 per cent (18 cases) on 2001/02.
40 per cent of male victims and 66 per cent of female victims knew the main suspect.
Overall the risk of being a victim of homicide was 19 per million population. Children under one year old were most at risk at 58 per million population.

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Overall the risk of being a victim of homicide in California was 68 per million population, in Lousiana the risk was 130 per million population in 2003.

The national rate was 57 per million population.

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old europe wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Perhaps we have better police and catch our criminals, rather than let them run among the general population?

Do you really think that is the reason, Tico?

No. I blame MTV and lax parenting.

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Ticomaya wrote:

No. I blame MTV and lax parenting.

Lots of that in Europe, too. Alas. MTV. <sigh>

Anything else?

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old europe wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
No. I blame MTV and lax parenting.

Lots of that in Europe, too. Alas. MTV. <sigh>

Anything else?

Um ... too much mercury in the water, lead in the paint, and Ritalin in the children?

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Are you saying you can't explain it?

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old europe wrote:

Are you saying you can't explain it?

Yes, and I'm also suggesting you can't explain it.

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These types of stats are really to hard to define what are the causes - there are just too many variables. I have studied lots of stats (typically financial - not criminal), but one stat I did calculate was the effect of criminal activity correlating with unemployment. These is a definate correlation. So financial situations could be another factor, as well as culture, as well climate, drug abusive or laws surrounding drug use, etc.

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Uhm, what about arms control? That would be my explanation. Of course you would have to take drug related crimes and maybe the cultural mix at the southern border into account, but that wouldn't apply for Louisiana or Maryland. The murder rates in Maryland are 5 times as high as in England & Wales.

I would blame the availabilty of weapons for the high murder rates.

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old europe wrote:

The murder rates in Maryland are 5 times as high as in England & Wales.

Well ... there are a lot of liberals in Maryland.

DC is the murder capital of the US, I believe.

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I don't think it's a matter of liberals or not. You don't seriously believe that, do you?

There are but six states that have a lower murder rate than England & Wales:

- Hawaii: 1.7
- Iowa: 1.6
- Idaho: 1.8
- Maine: 1.2
- New Hampshire: 1.4
- South Dakota: 1.3

Interesting and noteworthy: 3 states of the above mentioned do have the death penalty, 3 states don't have capital punishment.

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Ticomaya wrote:

old europe wrote:
The murder rates in Maryland are 5 times as high as in England & Wales.

Well ... there are a lot of liberals in Maryland.

DC is the murder capital of the US, I believe.

...and is currently held by a conservative majority.... Twisted Evil

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DrewDad wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
old europe wrote:
The murder rates in Maryland are 5 times as high as in England & Wales.

Well ... there are a lot of liberals in Maryland.

DC is the murder capital of the US, I believe.

...and is currently held by a conservative majority....

Unless I'm very mistaken, the darkest blue spot on the US 2004 Election Red/Blue map is located in Washington D.C. (89.7% voted for Kerry). Twisted Evil

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3 states with a lower murder rate than E&W are blue states, 3 states are red states (as per 2004 elections). There is no corelation between DP states and red/blue voting states:

- Hawaii: blue state (54% Kerry), no death penalty
- Iowa: red state (50% Bush), no death penalty
- Idaho: red state (68% Bush), death penalty
- Maine: blue state (54% Kerry), no death penalty
- New Hampshire: blue state (50% Kerry), death penalty
- South Dakota: red state (60% Bush), death penalty

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I would definitely consider that arms control is also a factor. But it is one factor - there are many more. Logically if there were no guns available - those murders that occur more spur of the moment or as a result of other crimes (ie. Robberies) would not occur. However I would also guess that those that are more thought out - planned would just occur differently with other weapons.

DC also has a very high unemployment rate. It is certainly the city of haves and have nots, but a huge margin.

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Ticomaya wrote:

DrewDad wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
old europe wrote:
The murder rates in Maryland are 5 times as high as in England & Wales.

Well ... there are a lot of liberals in Maryland.

DC is the murder capital of the US, I believe.

...and is currently held by a conservative majority....

Unless I'm very mistaken, the darkest blue spot on the US 2004 Election Red/Blue map is located in Washington D.C. (89.7% voted for Kerry).

That's true. Washington D.C. has the highest murder rate of all American cities with populations greater than 500,000 with 43 murders per 100,000. On the other hand, Honolulu with a population of 900,000 has the lowest number with 0.00002 murders per 100,000.
In the 2004 elections, Kerry had a 54.01% majority in Honolulu.

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Linkat wrote:

I would definitely consider that arms control is also a factor. But it is one factor - there are many more. Logically if there were no guns available - those murders that occur more spur of the moment or as a result of other crimes (ie. Robberies) would not occur. However I would also guess that those that are more thought out - planned would just occur differently with other weapons.

That's probably right. Nevertheless, what is the percentage of thought-out crimes? Imagine there would be no weapons available (well, almost no weapons) - wouldn't the murder rates go down significantly?

Another look at the England & Wales numbers: 1,045 deaths were initially recorded as homicides in England & Wales in 2002/2003. Firearms were used in 84 cases. In comparison, sharp instruments were used in 345 cases, which makes this the most common method of killing.

Just looking at these numbers: don't you think that - amongst other reasons - the availability of weapons in the States might be a major factor?

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OE writes

Quote:

Just looking at these numbers: don't you think that - amongst other reasons - the availability of weapons in the States might be a major factor?

Washington DC has the toughest gun laws and other such restrictions as anyplace in the country and has one of the highest crime and murder rates in the country. The same is similar for neighboring communities in that area.

The State of Utah has some of the most lenient gun laws and other such restrictions and one of the lowest state crime rates in the country.

Catron County NM passed a county ordinance making it mandatory that all the residents own at least one hand gun or rifle. Murder rate. Zero. Crime rate, virtually zero.

I think the prevalance of weapons has little or nothing to do with it. I think it is values, culture, and tolerance for human misbehavior that makes the difference.

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Old Europe - I agree - lowering the amounts of weapons would lower murder and in most areas are a major factor. There just are other factors that contribute to the rate of murder than just simply amounts of weapons. And I am a proponent of weapon bans especially certain types of fire arms that have no other purpose than to kill other people.

The problem with strict gun laws is that does ensure these guns are not available. It just makes them illegal.

Curious as to how many people are accidentally shot by hand guns or rifles in Catron County, NM - that would not be reflected in the murder rate. Not sure if having a gun in every household would increase this rate or not, but it would scare me. My next door neighbor may not be very bright and to think he would have a deadly weapon? Would scare the heck out of me. That blow torch he used to try to kill the bees nest was bad enough imagine him with a gun.

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Death Penalty Opponents, This Is Who You Champion

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