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Death Penalty Opponents, This Is Who You Champion

 
 
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 09:38 pm
Quote:


The vast majority of cases in which the death penalty is disbursed are similar to this one. Cases where the perpetrators murdered human beings (sometimes many more than one), in premeditated, cold, disregard for the natural laws of human society. This case, one where a convicted sex offender was allowed to run around annonymously, and subsequently tortured, raped and murdered in a most gruesome fashion - burying alive - a nine-year-old girl, is a perfect example of the necessity of the death penalty. It is inconceivable to many of us how a clamorous, obscenely vocal minority, never cease to babble protests against the death penalty, in direct support of men just like John Couey. They claim innumerable altruistic motives, but when boiled down to brass tacks, they are sickening activists who waste unfathomable amounts of time, and others' money, trying to spare the lives of these degenerates. What does that say about them?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154109,00.html
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 20,875 • Replies: 492
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 09:41 pm
That they don't want to become like those who murder.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:11 pm
I find it fascinatin'ly inexplicable that those who oppose the death penalty champion abortion as birth control. There's a serious disconnect goin' on there.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:12 pm
I agree.
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:26 pm
Re: Death Penalty Opponents, This Is Who You Champion
Lusatian wrote:

The vast majority of cases in which the death penalty is disbursed are similar to this one.


that's an exaggeration. for instance, in 1999, 43% of death row inmates were African-American, even though African-Americans are only 13% of the population. Couey is caucasian, coincidentally, as are the "vast majority" of serial killers. unless African-Americans are over 3 times as likely to commit capital offenses, the death penalty is not disbursed in the same way upon them as upon white Americans.
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:28 pm
timberlandko wrote:
I find it fascinatin'ly inexplicable that those who oppose the death penalty champion abortion as birth control. There's a serious disconnect goin' on there.

it seems inconsistent to me, but i personally oppose both.
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:40 pm
a PS to my note on unequal enforcement of capital punishment against African-Americans: the poster child for this double standard is Sammy the Bull Gravano, who admitted to killing 19 for money, but was placed in the witness protection program in exchange for testifying against John Gotti.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:45 pm
This is why we have governments. Governments can make policy into legislation and can do so dispassionately and without reference to a single case.

Pointing to a particular case such as this and then saying "this is who you champion" is silly. No-one is "championing" this murderer. The issue should murderers be put to death or be imprisoned for life. The issue is not should this murderer be put to death or imprisoned for life.
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Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:46 pm
I find it fascinatin'ly inexplicable that those who oppose abortion champion the death penalty as crime control. There's a serious disconnect goin' on there.

Or, to put it another way;

I find it fascinatin'ly inexplicable that those who oppose apples champion oranges. There's a serious disconnect goin' on there. :wink:
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:46 pm
yitwail wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
I find it fascinatin'ly inexplicable that those who oppose the death penalty champion abortion as birth control. There's a serious disconnect goin' on there.

it seems inconsistent to me, but i personally oppose both.


There's no inconsistency, they're totally different issues, no logical connection betwee the two.
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Apr, 2005 10:55 pm
goodfielder wrote:
yitwail wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
I find it fascinatin'ly inexplicable that those who oppose the death penalty champion abortion as birth control. There's a serious disconnect goin' on there.

it seems inconsistent to me, but i personally oppose both.


There's no inconsistency, they're totally different issues, no logical connection betwee the two.


then i hope you don't find it inconsistent that i believe abortion is morally wrong but i support a woman's right to choose.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 12:22 am
yitwail wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
yitwail wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
I find it fascinatin'ly inexplicable that those who oppose the death penalty champion abortion as birth control. There's a serious disconnect goin' on there.

it seems inconsistent to me, but i personally oppose both.


There's no inconsistency, they're totally different issues, no logical connection betwee the two.


then i hope you don't find it inconsistent that i believe abortion is morally wrong but i support a woman's right to choose.


Nope not inconsistent - well to me at least.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 12:30 am
The logical connection is that both entail the termination of a human life. That one is a matter of punishment and the other is a matter of convenience is immaterial. To support one and condemn the other is indefensible; neither in any way is less a termination of human life than is the other.

Moral relativism, and its stablemate, situational ethics, equal both intellectual and ethical bankruptcy; they form the wellspring of such as ethnic hatred, slavery, terrorism, and despotic, tyrannical governance.

An insurmountable, invalidatin' logical flaw of moral relativism is that to be valid, it must be neither more nor less valid than any other system of metaethics, includin' any metaethical system which disallows relativism. The term itself is nonsensical, self-contradictory; it is an oxymoron.

No wonder it has such great currency.
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Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 12:44 am
So Timber, you oppose the death penalty and abortion? Or the other way round?
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watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 12:52 am
timberlandko wrote:
I find it fascinatin'ly inexplicable that those who oppose the death penalty champion abortion as birth control. There's a serious disconnect goin' on there.


And it works both ways. Those who are for the death penalty are often against abortion. People are strage sometimes. Then again moral positions aren't always going to be logical, they're emotional processes which tend to be held somewhat seperately from intellectual reasoning.

Me, I'm pro death-penalty but also pro abortion. (Though frankly I'd like to replace with death-penalty with life-long involuntary medical experiments. More efficient.)

Quote:
Moral relativism and ... situational ethics equal ... intellectual ... bankruptcy


I disagree. What proof do you have for this? (apologies for the edit. I attempted to abbreviate it without altering context, let me know if I cut anything relevant out).
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 12:56 am
The logical connection is that both entail the termination of a human life.

Nope. That's why there's no logical connection. In one instance (the death penalty) we're referring to a person. In the other, abortion, we're talking about a foetus not a person. And then it goes off into arguments about when life begins and all that and becomes the usual circus of assertion and denial. Ends up going nowhere.

Why the two are compared is beyond me. Two different issues. Not connected.
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dora17
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 12:58 am
hey watchmakers guidedog, like your idea about the involuntary medical experiments... Laughing and here I thought i'd sound heartless saying i support both because there isn't room for everyone to live...
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dora17
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 01:03 am
yitwail wrote:
[
then i hope you don't find it inconsistent that i believe abortion is morally wrong but i support a woman's right to choose.

I'm glad there are people who see it that way. We all have different morals, the problem comes in when we try to force them on others. Thank you for making that distinction, yitwail.
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watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 02:33 am
dora17 wrote:
hey watchmakers guidedog, like your idea about the involuntary medical experiments... Laughing and here I thought i'd sound heartless saying i support both because there isn't room for everyone to live...


I've lost count of the number of times I've been called a "nazi" for describing my political ideas. Still, giving the life and comfort of a homocidal psychopath to save the lives and comfort of many suffering from diseases sounds like a worthwhile sacrifice to me.

Besides, the inefficiency of killing people and then just letting valuable, useful and educating bodies just rot away to nothing in the soil gets to me sometimes... I bloody hate waste.

Me, I'd use the organs for transplant, research on the rest, render down whatever remains for the valuable minerals and chuck out the residual carbon onto a compost heap...
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yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 02:34 am
dora17 wrote:
yitwail wrote:
[
then i hope you don't find it inconsistent that i believe abortion is morally wrong but i support a woman's right to choose.

I'm glad there are people who see it that way. We all have different morals, the problem comes in when we try to force them on others. Thank you for making that distinction, yitwail.

you're most welcome. people often forget there's no morality if there's no freedom of choice. that's why, in general, writing laws to prohibit immoral behavior might be well-intentioned but misguided, IMO, with the exception of behavior that harms others.
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