0
   

Something for ya Liberal's too chew on.

 
 
roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2005 11:13 pm
ossobuco wrote:
I think I've caught on that people want the word marriage to be reserved for religious ceremonials and civil unions for non religious knot-tying. Lots of heterosexual married couples haven't had a religious ceremony. Wonder if all those folks will be in the unmarried lineup sometime in the future.


I wonder if anybody has ever taken a poll to find out how many gays are actually deeply religious. I'd be so bold as to bet that it's under 45%, but that's just an uneducated guess. I bet if they really thought about it, they would be pushing for civil unions instead of marriage.
0 Replies
 
roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2005 11:17 pm
dora17 wrote:
by the way, roverroad, there is, from what i have heard, a difference between civil unions and actual marriage. i don't know the specifics, but i know that there are a large number of rights that marriage grants a couple that a civil union does not.


I don't see why civil unions can't have the same lawful benefits, Just set up civil unions so that they are the same thing as marriage, just not called marriage. That should make the bible thumpers happy. And the gays will still be able to get their tax breaks.
0 Replies
 
roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2005 11:20 pm
Montana wrote:
dora17 wrote:

I agree! People are people and I could care less who sleeps with who. They're not hurting anyone, so I don't get what the fuss is about. Some people just aren't happy if they don't have something to bitch about!


I agree too, people are people. But I don't know why ANYBODY would want to get married.

If the man usually get's screwed in a divorce, what happens when two women get divorced? Who get's the house Rolling Eyes

Marriage is obsolete! It's better just to live togeather in sin.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2005 11:30 pm
I actually agree with you there, rover. I'm not big on marriage myself. If the civil union gives them the same benefits as marriage, I think the majority would be happy with that. I'm not gay, so I can't say for sure, but it sounds good.

I'm a female, but since I own a house and some land with value, I would never sign a contract that combines my assets with someone elses. I've been screwed enough and what's mine is mine, damn it! LOL!
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 12:33 am
goodfielder wrote:
Interesting. The denial of rights to a section of society is occasion for celebration?

Oh, you mean those "claimed" rights they have never possessed at any time in any place in history?
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 12:35 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
Interesting. The denial of rights to a section of society is occasion for celebration?

Oh, you mean those "claimed" rights they have never possessed at any time in any place in history?


Which rights would they be?
0 Replies
 
watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 09:39 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Oh, you mean those "claimed" rights they have never possessed at any time in any place in history?


Article 2. of the universal decleration of human rights.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 16. of the universal decleration of human rights.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 09:59 am
Are you folks agreeing that the word marriage is only to be used for religious ceremonies? Even back when I was catholic, one described a couple getting married at city hall as Getting Married Out of the Church. I don't understand marriage to be only religious, so I am befuddled by much of the argumentation.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 10:06 am
In a number of jurisdictions, marriage means the civil union. That is, there is no legal marriage in the church, it is the civil union, which is a separate ceremony from the religious one.

I think that part of the difficulty is that the terminology varies across countries, and sometimes within countries.

There are gay couples who have had the legal, civil, ceremony, who still feel they need the religious ceremony because of their religious beliefs. There are gay couples who don't have access to the rights which come with civil union.

Lots of issues all mixed in together.
0 Replies
 
dora17
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 12:41 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
Interesting. The denial of rights to a section of society is occasion for celebration?

Oh, you mean those "claimed" rights they have never possessed at any time in any place in history?

So, Brandon, we only give rights to those who have already had them at some time? Doesn't leave much room for moving forward, does it?
0 Replies
 
Chrissee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2005 02:08 pm
According to the very limited view of brandon, all the rights that we take for granted, freedom of expression, etc did not exist until the 18th century when in fact they ALWAYS existed. The fact that they were not recognized and codified is irrelevant.
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 07:37 am
dora17 wrote:
i don't understand how you couldbe totally unsympathtic to these people. what would it feel like to suddenly be told you were no longer allowed to be married to the person you had chosen as your spouse? i just feel bad for those who have had their rights trampled on again. i don't understand how this country has become so stodgy, judgemental, and so unable to allow people to be different. the religious right promotes their so-called "culture of life" and obsesses over the rights of Terri Schiavo and unformed fetuses, and yet denies rights to normal, loving, functional people. a culture of life and a culture of hate all in one.
I just can't understand why they don't allow Hederalsexual Marriages in MASS, San Fransico, Virginia, or Key West.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 07:40 am
Quote:
I just can't understand why they don't allow Hederalsexual Marriages in MASS, San Fransico, Virginia, or Key West.

Yeah it's a mystery to me too.
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 07:41 am
Bankruptcy Reform Bill Passed
Christian Coalition of America Praises Bankruptcy Reform Bill Passed by U.S. House of Representatives Today With No Abortion Provisions

Washington D.C. -- Christian Coalition of America commends the Republican leadership in the U.S. House of Representatives for keeping off any abortion amendments on the bankruptcy reform bill passed overwhelmingly today. Last month, the pro-abortion amendment to the bankruptcy reform bill introduced by Senator Chuck Schumer, (D-NY), -- which would discriminate against peaceful pro-life demonstrators -- was defeated by a margin of 53-46 and the reform bill itself won by a margin of 74-25. It is expected that President George W. Bush will sign this bill -- one of his top priorities -- into law sometime later this month.

Christian Coalition led the way in November 2002 in preventing the U. S. House of Representatives from passing a House/Senate compromise of the bankruptcy reform bill with the pro-abortion amendment attached. That amended reform bill lost by the huge margin of 71 votes.

Christian Coalition of America President Roberta Combs said, "Christian Coalition commends both the House and Senate for their bipartisan efforts in stopping any pro-abortion amendments from being attached to the bankruptcy reform bill. There should never be compromises when it comes to protecting the life of the unborn. We look forward to advancing the Culture of Life in America with the passage of more pro-life legislation this year in Congress."

The Christian Coalition of America is America's largest Christian grassroots organization with more than 2 million supporters.
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 07:48 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
I note that CG is from Florida. Enough said. Texas with a Disney World.


say... florida... hey! isn't that the place where all of those little girls keep getting abducted and killed ??

they should worry about cleaning up their own mess before worrying about what consenting adults in other states are doing.
"Okay, you got me," I was the one abducting them, my big black dog was hungry. "Lurge just loves little girls!"
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 07:51 am
Welcome Back
CG, nice to see you back to the thread you started. As you can see, very few people agree with your hateful beliefs. Do you have any responses of your own to the comments posted or just another press release from the CC? Do you really think the CC is a "grassroots" organization?
0 Replies
 
ConstitutionalGirl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 07:56 am
Montana wrote:
dora17 wrote:
i don't understand how you couldbe totally unsympathtic to these people. what would it feel like to suddenly be told you were no longer allowed to be married to the person you had chosen as your spouse? i just feel bad for those who have had their rights trampled on again. i don't understand how this country has become so stodgy, judgemental, and so unable to allow people to be different. the religious right promotes their so-called "culture of life" and obsesses over the rights of Terri Schiavo and unformed fetuses, and yet denies rights to normal, loving, functional people. a culture of life and a culture of hate all in one.


I agree! People are people and I could care less who sleeps with who. They're not hurting anyone, so I don't get what the fuss is about. Some people just aren't happy if they don't have something to bitch about!
(From http://www.breakingchristiannews.com)

Canadians Publicly Reading Aloud the Word of God in Coast to Coast "Proclamation"
by Aimee Herd (BCN Exclusive) : Apr 11, 2005 : Canadian Bible Society

In the book of Nehemiah chapter 8, it describes the desire of the people for God's word and what happened when Ezra began to read it.

NEH 8:5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people;) and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

NEH 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

NEH 9:3 And they stood up in their place, and read in the book of the law of the LORD their God one fourth part of the day; and another fourth part they confessed, and worshipped the LORD their God.

Ministry These are the roots of the Canadian Bible Society's "Proclamation" events which have been happening each Spring across Canada, for over a decade in some provinces. True to the above passage, Proclamation is simply the public reading-aloud of the entire Bible. Readers usually encompass many different ethnic groups and denominations, the event being held in churches and other venues. Sometimes the Bible is read in other languages, the blind reading from a Braille Bible, and the deaf, signing the words. The readings are usually done over a 10-day period, 14 hours each day.

Denise Blouin, a participant in Proclamation explained, "When you read Scripture silently, you can meditate. But by reading together, I feel like I'm sharing in the faith of others. The Proclamation helped me appreciate how the Word of God addresses all people, regardless of their doctrines and practices."

Ministry The Power of the Word:Just by reading the Bible aloud in public, lives have been changed, as testimonies come in from various areas that have participated in the event. One of those stories surfaces from a Proclamation gathering in Montreal, and is posted on the Canadian Bible Society's website:

One evening last year while a men's group was reading at St James United Church in Montreal, there were several walk-ins, but one in particular stood out - a young "Goth" wearing a long black coat with heavy chains. He asked if he might sit and pray quietly but he soon became restless in the pew and began to weep. A minister approached him and they talked quietly.

The young man said he had been involved in satanic activities. "The power of the words being read crushed me and filled me with horror at the atrocities I'd committed." The minister privately counseled him. Eventually the tears gave way to smiles, then hugs. The minister offered his business card and the two agreed to meet again.

Ministry Another testimony from the website is from a pastor who was skeptical at first at whether the readings would hold people's interest.

Yet as the word got out and the momentum built, the Proclamation became "not only a spiritual discipline but also a moving spiritual experience for readers and listeners alike." One man wroteÂ…saying he had found a second home at the Proclamation soaking up Scripture.

Another discovery stemming from the public reading of Scripture is the unity it brings, crossing all denominational and ethnic lines. In Edmonton, the Bible was read in 23 languages including, Urdu, Maori, and Nepali. The Moncton, New Brunswick Proclamation involved 30 Catholic and 35 Protestant congregations and is being called by some, the greatest ecumenical event in the city's history.

Some of the Proclamations for 2005 in Canada, have already been held, yet some are planned for next month. A complete schedule can be viewed at the Canadian Bible Society's website.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 11:56 am
ConstitutionalGirl wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
blueveinedthrobber wrote:
I note that CG is from Florida. Enough said. Texas with a Disney World.


say... florida... hey! isn't that the place where all of those little girls keep getting abducted and killed ??

they should worry about cleaning up their own mess before worrying about what consenting adults in other states are doing.
"Okay, you got me," I was the one abducting them, my big black dog was hungry. "Lurge just loves little girls!"


very funny! however it still doesn't address the fact that as outspoken as floridians have been about values and protecting those that cannot protect themselves, the littlest ones have been so ignored by the state government that the job of protecting them has been handed off to a private organisation.

florida privatizes child welfare

doesn't it seem to you that the protecton of these little ones, that people chose to bring into the world, set adrift by parental deaths or parental abuse is in far more need of attention by floridians than what consulting adults are doing in another state?

btw, i'm not cracking on all floridians. i have several friends either from or living there. heck! my ol' granpappy lived in punta gorda on "alligator creek". Laughing
0 Replies
 
Sanctuary
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 12:28 pm
ConstitutionalGirl wrote:
Hederalsexual Marriages...


God, I hope you were joking...

What an ignorant, narrow-minded viewpoint I've noticed CG and Brandon have. It's quite entertaining.

Brandon, if we only gave rights to those who originally had them, then not even you would be able to sit there and typed out such biased and unintelligent responses. For I bet you are not 100% Native American blood (and if you are, please reassure me of this so that I can see you not so much as an ignorant man, but instead as a racist, hateful nativist), and have roots which were once immigrated into this country. If that's so, then darling you too would be stripped of your rights (which wouldn't have existed without protest and the demand for equality) just as 'the gays' are.

Why it is so hard for some people to turn the situations around, ever so slightly so that it portrays them in the footsteps of the innocent people being subjected to this bias, beats me. Tell me Brandon, CG, (and I beg of you, read this while keeping an open mind - don't feel anger and don't feel the need to type a long rebuttle - not until I'm done) you fall in love (with the opposite sex, mind you): You have found your other half (at least for now, right? :wink: ), your soulmate, your whole. However, the President of your country is a selfish, hypocritical man who involves religion in his decision making, even though it is in the Constitution not to do so. See, no one cares about this but a small few, because the majority of the country happens to follow the same religion that is put into practice in the administration. They are blind to the fact that people are harmed by their narrow-minded and contradicting ways, and instead go on supporting this President because it keeps them (their morals, their views, their opinions - all safegaurded and never questioned) in a saftey blanket. However, unfortunately for the two of you - happily in love with the opposite sex - their religion states that those who lay with members of the other sex are sinners. Think Christianity, but the rules reversed. You are now damned for having fallen in love, innocently and unintentionally, because you happened to do so in a way that seemed natural to you. However, being that the majority disagrees and just...doesn't like the idea of you being with that gender (I mean, it harms them in no way, and in all honesty, what are the chances of the people in office knowing about you specificly, let alone question their idea of marriage?), you are now commiting a sin, and are not allowed to legally be joined with that person in the same way that those who are in same-sex relationships are.

Think about it, guys. That is not America. No, I take that back - it is America and that's the problem. It shouldn't be America. However, we've devolved so much...

It's not a matter of being a gay-lover, or a homosexual ourselves. It's a matter of equality, FREEDOM - you know, that little motto of the good ol' U.S.? To me, you are no different from the white suprimacists who denied Blacks their rights at the start of this country. You're no different from the Nazis and their goal to create a group of people that mirror only themselves. You're no better than Pole Pot, terrorists, etc..anyone who aims to end a spacific group of people merely because of their differences...they're all the same. And while you may butter up your apearance with the homely words suxh as 'conservative,' or 'traditionalist,' you're all the same in my eyes. All the same...
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Apr, 2005 12:38 pm
Sanctuary,

Would you be satisfied with a civil union that granted the same benefits that marriage does now?
0 Replies
 
 

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