RIP OBAMACARE

@farmerman,

I don’t care what it’s called.

All I want is more people covered, cheaper costs as a nation as a whole, and much cheaper costs for poor people (like 2/3rds of my family who get government assistance) and those who make less than a certain income but aren’t dirt poor.

Some people who say they can’t afford it (like my brother who makes $75k/yr) really just prefer to blow their money on vacations and leasing nice cars. He can afford $500/mo, but just doesn’t want to. I don’t blame him, who really wants to? But we all have to do things we don’t want to sometime.

0 Replies

@Sturgis,

He had as much of a chance as you were willing to give him.

0 Replies

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

Hate to focus on myself, but if it is not overturned, I'll lose my insurance and I have heart disease along with many other health issues. I know lots of others who will lose their insurance too.

Why can't you just buy insurance directly from an insurance company?

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I never really liked Obamacare, from its inception. True, it helped millions to get insurance, who otherwise could get none, which made it more compassionate than the alternate Republican plan, called "**** you, losers; go off and die, you freeloading scumbags," but it didn't do enough.

What doesn't it do?

edgarblythe wrote:

Universal health care is the only civilized answer to health care.

How is Obamacare not universal health care?

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

"ObamaCare" - legally known as Affordable Healthcare Act, to me, was never intended to be a permanent solution. I and many others viewed it as step one towards a universal healthcare system.

How is Obamacare not universal healthcare?

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Perfect climate for universal healthcare.

How is Obamacare not universal healthcare?

Lash wrote:

Just chunk off a single digit percentage of the obscene glut of our money stolen for the US military machine.

Should we just let the bad guys come and murder everyone?

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

The southern states, Texas for instance, never bought into it, so it was far too expensive for most of us to buy into. I was retired by then, so had no personal experience with the ACA. As for 'ramming it through', that's the only way anything will ever get passed anymore. In my opinion, universal care was sabotaged back then for the big money interests. There was a time we had enough Democrats to pass it, but too many were foot draggers.

I have a small correction to make: I was not quite retired when ACA took hold. I had a job that afforded me Aetna insurance for 23 years.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I never really liked Obamacare, from its inception. True, it helped millions to get insurance, who otherwise could get none, which made it more compassionate than the alternate Republican plan, called "**** you, losers; go off and die, you freeloading scumbags," but it didn't do enough. Universal health care is the only civilized answer to health care. Part of that civilized answer is to reform the medical/pharma industries so they charge reasonable prices for medicine and they actually should be pushed to seek cures instead of harmful symptom treatments with deadly side effects. Being a wild eyed liberal who ought to be caged, I will push for this sort of thing, but I know it will be hard to herd the congress to go in the right direction.

The real problem is the cost of medical education/licensing. If you go to medical school, you have to invest a lot of money. Then, when you are licensed to practice, you have little choice to charge low prices and/or work for free, because you have loans to pay off.

If you want affordable care, you have to let people get educated/licensed at a low cost and give them access to equipment that doesn't put them in debt either. If there was a lower-cost way to practice medicine, then it would be possible to see patients at very affordable rates.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Tell that bullshit to every other developed country there is. They have it and are allegedly less well off than we.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

So the last time you went without health insurance was almost 30 years ago? And you have had your employer or government healthcare since?

0 Replies

@oralloy,

Quote:

How is Obamacare not universal healthcare?

Universal, as the name implies, is a system set up for all citizens. ObamaCare, not nearly so much.

Do yourself a favor, go and research both. Learn all the differences, there are many.

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

Universal, as the name implies, is a system set up for all citizens. ObamaCare, not nearly so much.

Obamacare was set up to cover all citizens.

Sturgis wrote:

Do yourself a favor, go and research both. Learn all the differences, there are many.

I prefer to let you back up your own claims.

0 Replies

The shortcomings of the ACA could have been addressed as the system was rolled out and problems were identified — which is how it was supposed to work. And that's how it would have worked if Congress as a whole had decided to back the concept of health insurance reform instead of looking at it as an opportunity to give Obama a black eye. One of the worst aspects of the law were the cut0ff points for subsidies — which ended up really hurting middle class people with decent wages and modest assets.

I think it's too soon to campaign on the promise of a single-payer system. It's something we should strive for but I don't like the way it's being used as a litmus test for candidates. It's fine to clamor "Medicare for All!" but we shouldn't underestimate the difficulties involved in replacing the private insurance companies and dismantling an industry which employs 300,000 people.

I'd like to see a president (no, probably not the current one) form a commission with insurance people, healthcare professionals, legislators, economists — you know, a broad spectrum of informed people. They'd be given the task of planning a transition from ACA to a single-payer system. Discussion would be visible and above board. The commission would be non-partisan. This issue is too important to have it turned into a political football. Have them come up with a plan — or maybe a few — and let the country educate itself about the provisions of the program and how it would be implemented. One of the shortcomings of the ACA — besides being seen as a partisan issue — is how it was hashed out in private and rolled out as a fait accompli.

1 Reply

@hightor,

I agree with all of this.

How do we get republicans to even agree that something approaching universal healthcare for all American citizens regardless of ability to pay is something in the interest of America?

I don't know how to cross this hurdle, which is why I'm in such favor of holding on to what we have been able to achieve (the ACA) and make improvements to that program until the problem above can be recognized by 40% of the country as even being a problem.

And even if we win over the majority of citizens, we have to win over the majority of Senators and with the way our system is set up (2 Senators per state, regardless of population) we have to win over a huge majority of citizens (approaching 70% I'd imagine) before states like Wyoming or North Dakota would sign on.

2 Replies

@maporsche,

Also, I’m really curious why California wasn’t able to get this done for their state. They are the 5th largest economy in the entire world and a pretty liberal state. There are many countries much smaller than California with UHC.

Why haven’t any of the liberal states done this?

Is there something stopping them I’m not familiar with?

0 Replies

@maporsche,

Quote:

How do we get republicans to even agree that something approaching universal healthcare for all American citizens regardless of ability to pay is something in the interest of America?

One thing we need to do is find examples of people who have been helped by the ACA — people who vote Republican. A bunch of "Harry and Louise" TV spots featuring ordinary people discussing their insurance needs in a non-partisan manner might help. Moderate Republican governors who accepted Medicaid expansion should be featured. And Mitt Romney — although he tries to deny it,"Romneycare" in Massachusetts had many similarities to the ACA. I think he could be an effective spokesman. I'm under no illusions about this "plan" though. If Republicans feel there are more votes to be had by leaving people to fend for themselves (what the **** is wrong with these people?) they'll continue to oppose any government participation.

I guess another tack might be for states to really ramp up efforts to develop their own systems and eventually the most successful plans might find wider adaption.

EDIT: Saw your second post after posting this one and you raise good points — why not California?

1 Reply

@hightor,

There was a guy with a GoFundMe account a couple of years ago who said that he was a Republican who was against the ACA and he never had health insurance and didn't appreciate the government telling him that he needed to buy it.

He then had some sort of problem with his eyes and started to lose his vision and needed expensive healthcare and couldn't afford it, so he turned to strangers (like so many have to do now a days). It was a pretty sad story, and the guy had a pretty long explanation and mea culpa about how healthcare really works and how he was pissed at republicans for not looking out for those who don't know better.

It could all have been a ruse to get money, but it was a pretty convincing one. I gave him $50 if I remember correctly. There are likely many stories like this, I would like to hear more about them.

I don't know if it will work either. Almost half the country hates and distrusts everything the government does (and the other half distrust the government for not doing things).

That 177-2 vote in Canada that ehbeth posted earlier still has me flummoxed and in awe. Naming post offices doesn't get that kind of support in America.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:
Universal health care is the only civilized answer to health care.
How is Obamacare not universal health care?

I think you're confusing (maybe on purpose) Universal Health Care with Universal Health Insurance.

Health Care is treatment.
Health Insurance is payment for treatment.

Universal Health Care is treatment for everyone, regardless of ability to pay. For people who support this, they usually also mean quality ongoing treatment with regular checkups, etc (not emergency room visits).

Universal Health Insurance is what the ACA has given us as (I hope) a stop gap. Everyone is allowed to purchase insurance IF they can afford it. The preexisting conditions problem is largely solved. There are basic healthcare needs that insurances companies have to provide. There are even subsidies to help many afford it who otherwise couldn't (I believe these subsidies are not enough for many people, however).

The problem with this for some people is that it's like saying "everyone is allowed to purchase a Lamborghini" or "everyone is allowed to purchase a 10 caret diamond ring." Is there a person stopping them? Of course not, it's a free country and they have a right to get those things......but, they are priced much higher than all but the top 1-2% can afford.

Is that how you want health insurance to operate?

0 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

That 177-2 vote in Canada that ehbeth posted earlier still has me flummoxed and in awe. Naming post offices doesn't get that kind of support in America.

it's one of the benefits of a true multi-party system. in times of minority governments, the official government party has to find positions that at least one other party will vote with them on. in the case of universal health care, no party wanted to be seen as the party voting against the citizens - especially as the success in Saskatchewan was already in evidence. Minority governments often give a lot of power to third parties vs power for the official opposition. In Canada, that means the NDP can move things to the centre left, away from the Liberal centre right or Conservative right right positions.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Oh to be rid of the first-past-the-post election system.

Then America could actually have moderate parties.

Although even then, I don’t think healthcare would get that kind of support right now. No way republicans or libertarians are voting for higher taxes and more government programs.

2 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know